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What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

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Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#91

Post by ghobs91 »

reallydude wrote: post #35
ghobs91 wrote: post #23

1. Even if we can't completely prevent it, we can stop it from being much worse. 2. Regardless of the climate changer factor, polluting the air causes cancer, damages ecosystems, harms our food supply, etc. The mentality of "we can't prevent it, so why bother trying" is like accidentally shooting yourself in the foot, and when finding out it'll have to be amputated, proceeding to shoot your other foot because "what's…

The survival of our technological civilization is very much uncertain. It has been since the nuclear age. If someone wanted to take meaningful action, they would be sinking container ships. In aggregate, they contribute to more pollution (of all kinds), than most singular countries. Nobody is going to war over this, so it's inevitable. If it's inevitable, it's not healthy to pretend otherwise. The earth will survive,…

Interestingly, from a technological standpoint, container ships could switch to nuclear propulsion tomorrow if they wanted to. The 2 main reasons they haven't is the large up front cost, and the fact that very few nations like the idea of a ship with a nuclear reactor being highjacked by pirates.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#92

Post by gmuslera »

If it can't be stopped, then we must assume that what could happen will. Like when someone shoots a bullet, and we observe the action in slow motion while the bullet is going, there is no way for the target to move out, and we must assume that a murder has been commited, even if the target is not dead yet.

So, in this particular case, a mass murder has been commited, and what we should do to put on trial the ones that shoot the bullet, and the same to the ones that intentionally hid the evidence (maybe taking out our chances to avoid preventing it).

And then, without them around keep trying to deny that there is no climate change, we may focus on mitigating the effects and avoiding to get worse without more interference.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#93

Post by xkcd-sucks »

hyperman1 wrote: post #62
reallydude wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The survival of our technological civilization is very much uncertain. It has been since the nuclear age. If someone wanted to take meaningful action, they would be sinking container ships. In aggregate, they contribute to more pollution (of all kinds), than most singular countries. Nobody is going to war over this, so it's inevitable. If it's inevitable, it's not healthy to pretend otherwise. The earth will survive,…

Serious question: I always see 'humans will survive' in these kinds of posts. Why? We know most of the past species are extinct, we are in the middle of a mass extinction event, the climate crisis hasn't even fully begun, and there are other serious problems coming. So I don't want to be negative, but I do want to stay realistic. Does someone know why humans will survive, and on which time scale this prediction is va…

People have been inhabiting the Arctic for millennia, and that's a pretty inhospitable place. Granted, it's technologically easier to heat than to cool (just eat lots of fat)

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#94

Post by unicornporn »

gmuslera wrote: post #92

If it can't be stopped, then we must assume that what could happen will. Like when someone shoots a bullet, and we observe the action in slow motion while the bullet is going, there is no way for the target to move out, and we must assume that a murder has been commited, even if the target is not dead yet. So, in this particular case, a mass murder has been commited, and what we should do to put on trial the ones tha…

Listen "Deep Adaptation: A Map for Navigating Climate Tragedy":

https://www.soundcloud.com/user-56712817/deep-adaptation

Or read it:

https://www.lifeworth.com/deepadaptation.pdf

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#95

Post by Yetanfou »

What if we stopped talking in apocalyptic terms and started looking at ways to live on a planet which, for whatever reason, is endowed with an ever-changing climate which has given it everything from dragonflies with a 70cm wing span to blue whales to sentient self-conscious primates with a tendency to speak of terrible things which are about to come true if action is not taken right now.

Also, use common sense. It will tell you that it is a good thing to be less dependent on energy sources which are directly linked to one of the most volatile regions in the world. Alternatives exist, from nuclear in its many guises which can take care of the base load to solar and wind which can help but can not take care of the base load due to their inherent unpredictability and - in the case of solar - absence during ~50% of the day. Geothermal can be a good source in many regions. Common sense will also dictate that it is high time to seriously start looking at better ways to store energy so that those unpredictable sources can be used more efficiently while keeping the distribution networks from melting down.

And, please... stop following the talking points of political organisations which have taken up the climate banner to further their own goals. Stop the McCarthy-like hunt for anyone who dares to voice a differing opinion. Stop all that polarising nonsense and maybe, just maybe the world will be better off in the end.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#96

Post by hyperman1 »

adrianN wrote: post #80
hyperman1 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: I always see 'humans will survive' in these kinds of posts. Why? We know most of the past species are extinct, we are in the middle of a mass extinction event, the climate crisis hasn't even fully begun, and there are other serious problems coming. So I don't want to be negative, but I do want to stay realistic. Does someone know why humans will survive, and on which time scale this prediction is va…

If push comes to shove a breeding population can survive for millenia in underground caves huddled around breeder reactors.

Citing a post in this same discussion: warming by 5 degrees will cause all phytoplankton to die off and as a result we'll run out of oxygen. So no, that's not enough.

Even if it would be, how would you feed these people? How would their underground cave get power for light etc in a CO2-negative world?

AFAIK, the 'biosphere 2' experiment and the experiences with the space stations demonstrated humanity is not capable of surviving long term without mother earth. There are plenty of unknown unknowns.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#97

Post by unicornporn »

_ph_ wrote: post #45
Bombthecat wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But would there be a difference between 5 and 6?

Yes and we still have a good chance to keept it well below 5. For most technologies emitting CO2, we now have emission free replacements, so if we strongly push for using them, we do have quite a fighting chance.

> if we strongly push for using them

What do you mean by that?

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#98

Post by jacobwilliamroy »

berrynice wrote: post #71
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic stuff. Learn horticulture, soil science. Understand whether or not your area is viable for a sustainable settlement and move along if it's not. Best to do all your moving while you can still afford to drive. Do exercise, strength training, cardio. Bodyweight stuff or yoga is great for everyday life activities. How far can you carry 60 pounds of supplies and equipment? Make friends, obviously. Learn how to resol…

It's also probably a good idea to learn how to resolve conflicts violently and accept the consequences of that.

Slug throwing is pretty basic stuff. Doesn't take very long to learn that.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#99

Post by yura »

Is that it? We are all going to die because one fiction writer said so? These kinds of claims only discredit the whole discussion. Climate change is a serious problem, but fearmongering doesn't solve anything. How about just stating the facts, instead of chiming in with your own non-scientific opinions and accusing everyone of pretending? Just so you can get more clicks.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#100

Post by i_am_proteus »

tw04 wrote: post #59
i_am_proteus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which all conveniently line up with one major political platform. "If you frightened by the coming climate cataclysm, then you should also agree with me on everything ." It's very well-written, but it's not rational. The content is more political than scientific.

It doesn't matter in the least if you agree with a candidate on everything. This one specific subject should be a deal breaker though, regardless of just about any other stance. Your opinion on free market is irrelevant in the face of Extinction.

To be clear: I'm referencing to the part of the article where the author irrationally asserts that [list of one party's policies unrelated to the climate] are related to the climate.

Hence "more political than scientific."

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