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Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#71

Everybody comments about how there are all these amazing tools that help your productivity (which is true), but they don't talk about how the opposing force of organizational complexity ultimately results in "just normal" levels of productivity. They don't cancel each other out exactly though, so some things are way easier (spinning up a huge computation), while some things are way harder (making a small change to sh…

I thought the monorepo setup made cross-project dependency changes easy?

Not at all. Monorepo is merely a detail around VCS and it does not remove complexity and the need for versioning.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#72
The most important thing I learned there was that you hire and promote people not so management can tell them what to do, but so they can tell management what to do. I didn’t even realize it at the time but the first post-Google job I had there was some clueless manager trying to set the roadmap and I was like “LOL what is this guy’s problem?” That when I started noticing the reasons that Google succeeds.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#73
post #52

Other than having “Google” on my resume there is nothing special or applicable outside of Google. Most tools are internal, isolated and the choices are restrictive. Management is shitty - micro-management is in full bloom, display lack of management knowledge, skills and there’s plenty of abuse of power. They don’t show their appreciation to what we do. All developers are very competitive. My entire time of over a ye…

As someone who has worked at multiple companies, currently at Google, you don't tend to leave a company, you leave a manager. Managers are one of your primary interfaces to a company. If those managers are crap, you will have a bad experience.

It's bigger than that IMO. I can switch managers at a big company. But if the entire division is inept, it's time to jump companies because it's a tell that the culture is decaying.

For me, the only reason I will never go back to GOOG is blind allocation. IMO that's a bug, not a feature.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#74

Not Google, but another Big Tech company. Visibility is very important to getting a promotion at a large company. Selling your work is important. To move up, you must be playing the "choose a good project or team" game for at least 6 months before you try to get promoted. Preferably for a year or more to hit the right checkboxes for multiple cycles. If you fail to do so, you can do absolutely amazing work but rigid p…

Personally that sounds like barf ... politics, stress, insecurities, backstabbing, stress, burn out. I am much happier working in boring government where working hard for family and with mature/secure with themselves (older) adults is paramount & prevalent. Thankfully not an enticing environment for douchebags.

Doesn't government come with its own hurdles? I have friends who have to deal with securing grant money (it's own game of flexing how important your project is with decision makers).

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#75

A friend who spent a short time there said "you know that tool that you want to build before you start working on your real job? At G, it already exists" This is less true now because a lot of their tooling has been exported either directly or by rumors leading to it getting rebuilt outside. I'm talking containerization / orchestration and protobufs specifically.

> At G, it already exists

quality of the tool has also significant impact on the end result. Looking at the number of unsuccessful external projects, I bet they also have enough mess inside.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#76

Not Google but similar. I learned that my motivation is proportional to the quality and amount of free food I receive. This includes willingness to participate in pointless meetings. Note: this is not something I'm particularly proud of or anything. Just an observation.

We are sophisticated monkeys after all.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#77
1) All big companies inevitably devolve into Dilbert, no matter how cool they seem from the outside

2) Humans are easily fooled by signaling and vanity metrics, exploit this quirk

3) Depends on the team, but in general working at a big company is 10X easier and more relaxing than working at a startup. You’ll probably never go back to working at a small company after realizing this.

4) Buddying up to the right people will dramatically alter your experience in a big company—meritocracy can never exist when human emotions are involved

5) the difficulty of the interview process is just plain bizarre given how simple the daily jobs of 95% of the engineers are

6) you will have the nagging feeling a high school kid could do most of the (non engineering) jobs in the company with a few months of on the job training

7) due to 5 and 6, unless you are a sociopath, you will feel guilty on a daily basis for building generational wealth while an immigrant contractor struggling to get by dishes out your free food

8) you will learn that at most big companies, the innovation is in the past

9) on the bright side, google does have really cool internal tools and perks

10) after leaving, people will grossly overestimate your intelligence and skill level due to the name google being on your resume (see #2)

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#78
post #9
post #4

You should replace Google with "big tech company" or FAANG to get more responses.

FAANG don't share the same engineering culture.

I agree that there are cultural differences, but culture definitely varies from team to team in any large tech company. I think a job at any of the big tech companies is interchangeable. I hear stories about learning from code reviews, maintaining build systems, and building out new cross team products at all of the big tech firms, I don’t think the lessons learned at google are particularly special.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#79

8 years; what I've learned -- working in absolutely huge code bases, good C++ style, good code review culture, intellectual humility. What I haven't learned: how to thrive in a huge organization with people more bureaucratically ambitious/motivated than you. How to turn a blind eye to broken waterfall method dysfunction. Starting to get to me. Probably looking for the door soon; p.s. entertaining offers for remote (C…

Here is @cmrdporcupine GitHub [1] if anyone wants to hire him.

You’ll find his LinkedIn profile searching his name online.

[1] https://github.com/rdaum

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#80
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Google there’s an IC ladder from level 3 (new grads) to 11 (Jeff and Sanjay). Basically it’s a pay scale. Half of engineers are below 5, and 90% are below 6. Edit: pretty sure I was off by one originally. But you get the idea: it’s a triangular organization with a lot of people at the base.

For pay ranges check out some charts we’ve compiled at http://levels.fyi/charts.html

I decided to focus on power engineering instead of software in the mid 2000s since I thought a lot of software jobs would be offshored. Big mistake in terms of compensation!!
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