Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 770 posts

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#621

Post by onemoresoop »

qazpot wrote: post #612
anon2947 wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read a few more of Xeni's tweets, and wanted to get HN's honest opinion on them. It seems (to me) like a lot of people on Twitter (and HN?) are over-reacting. For example, Xeni's pinned tweet references this other tweet ( https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1165266579560521728 ), which implies that anybody who was ever at a dinner with Epstein should be considered complicit in Epstein's crimes. Take this quote, for exa…

It seems that a lot of people are of the opinion that Epstein did not get due punishment for his crimes and whatever jail time was given to him he tried everything to reduce it's severity by using his money. This is true but instead of acting or speaking out against these loopholes in the justice system which to be fair are exploited by every rich/influential person convicted of a crime, what is happening is that peo…

This is mob justice, I agree, but will do some good in the long run. It will serve as a reminder to self regulate in the future. If another Epstein comes along there will be visible distancing from him.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#623

Post by ritchiea »

andrewflnr wrote: post #424
ritchiea wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there inevitably people who want to do the mental gymnastics of assuming innocence for a man convicted of sex trafficking? I understand assuming innocence the first time someone is accused of anything unsavory because mistakes happen. But once you are convicted, serve jail time and are suspiciously behaving in the same manner... Who are we serving by assuming innocence? And let me remind you that in society w…

Mental gymnastics to avoid assuming bad intent without evidence is the only way to avoid becoming a deranged mob. This is a healthy instinct and you damage our ability to have rational discussions by attacking it. Until we get more evidence, and given that there is plenty of actual evidence of wrongdoing in other areas, let's focus our attention there, shall we?

So not taking donations from a felon convicted of sex trafficking and not going to his dinner parties and showing concern for young women from poor countries he keeps around him is being a deranged mob now?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#624

Post by GhettoMaestro »

jlg23 wrote: post #595
paganel wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m 38 and afaik nobody has ever sent me underage women for me to have sex with them, that way I could have boasted to an external third party that “I refused”. When you’re 88 years old (so when biologically sex is one of the last things you should be thinking about) and when one of your close friends “sends” you an under-age woman that only means that that close friend of yours knew what you liked and what you were…

Lucky you. I am 38 myself, it happened twice in the last year, both times only to make me complicit. The guy is in prison now, though for an unrelated matter and the girls are fine, albeit still digging for gold (but at least on their own terms). PS: Morocco, not the USofA.

Uhh... wow. Would be interested in some background if you can share. Crazy world.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#625

Post by [deleted] »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #513
jakelazaroff wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that's a very unfair framing of the issue. He invited Epstein over. Epstein brought his 'assistants'. It's still a question mark whether they were even prostitutes, let alone prostitutes operating in any sort of non-consensual capacity. What we have here is simply that someone at MIT speculated whether they were being trafficked. There is no evidence at all that their presence was anything other than consen…

What does "sex trafficked" mean? Is it prostitution? Sexual slavery? Why do you use such an unclear term in a discussion?

[deleted]

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#626

Post by onemoresoop »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #513
jakelazaroff wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that's a very unfair framing of the issue. He invited Epstein over. Epstein brought his 'assistants'. It's still a question mark whether they were even prostitutes, let alone prostitutes operating in any sort of non-consensual capacity. What we have here is simply that someone at MIT speculated whether they were being trafficked. There is no evidence at all that their presence was anything other than consen…

What does "sex trafficked" mean? Is it prostitution? Sexual slavery? Why do you use such an unclear term in a discussion?

To keep it short it just means pimping, which is illegal

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#627

Post by sverige »

ljm wrote: post #604
topspin wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A good number of us here are in the tech industry, we're busy enough as it is. Might want to tune back in a bit; the demise of Epstein is one of the most kelptocratic things that's ever happened in the US. It doesn't even matter exactly how he died; there is no 'fact pattern' you can subscribe to that isn't a consequence of in-your-face public corruption.

To be fair, remember also that this happened in the US, and there are plenty of people who are tuned into what is going on closer to home. We're not all Americans here. Although if I was going to comment on something very specific to the US and wasn't quite sure what it was about, I'd probably do some fact-finding beforehand.

There are some international implications in the Epstein case. Prince Andrew is not American either, for example. And apparently the British media had some inkling, or he likely wouldn't have had the nickname 'Randy Andy' when he was younger.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#628

Post by jknoepfler »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #617
jknoepfler wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's sad that to even engage in rational discussion about whether and to what extent people were complicit in this, you felt compelled to use an anonymous account. I don't blame you, either, mob justice is horrible.

Almost as horrible as pedophilia being protected and normalized.

Far worse, actually. Mob justice is the force behind almost every human on human mass slaughter in history.

It's a far cry short of say diarrhea or malnutrition in terms of actually horrible things that kill millions of people every year, but as human-caused catastrophes go mob justice is many orders of magnitude worse that "pedophilia being protected and normalized." Sure, I'll die on that hill.

"Oh but think of the children."

It's very important to protect rational deliberation, dispassionate pursuit of justice, and truth-seeking behavior in general. Do you disagree?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#629

Post by jakelazaroff »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #603
jakelazaroff wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really an important question? Is there an definition that would make it okay?

Yes, "why do you use 'sex trafficking' term?" is an important question. Yes: if under "sex trafficking" we understand [consensual] "prostitution", then in some states it is OK. But even if "sex trafficking" is not ok -- there are various degrees of "not ok". That is why it is important to use clear definitions in a discussion. Unclear "sex trafficking" term converts discussion from rational to irrational, when everyo…

I don’t know of any definition of “sex trafficking” in which it’s consensual. But just so we’re clear, here’s the relevant part of the quote:

> We literally had a conversation about how, on the off chance that they’re not there by choice, we could maybe help them.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#630

Post by liability »

tzs wrote: post #302
liability wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely Bill Gates hires big burly men who can enforce his personal space. I find it hard to believe that Bill Gates could earnestly be the victim of such hounding for more than a brief moment.

Gates is sometimes surprisingly accessible. Some lawyers I know were in Seattle to take depositions for a big lawsuit they were on. They went to dinner at a restaurant, and then went out to get a cab back to their hotel. A bunch of other people were leaving at the same time, and people going in the same direction were agreeing to share cabs so people would not have to wait as long. They were about to get in to the ca…

That Epstein could get himself into Gates' personal space once is something I explicitly accounted for. What I continue to sincerely doubt is that he could do it twice. For the first time, Gates' default allow policy would allow him to get close. But after Bill Gates has told his security team "this guy is a pedo freak, never let him approach me again", would that not be the end of it?
Post reply on HN