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Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

nytimes.com

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Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#601

Post by jknoepfler »

colechristensen wrote: post #560
cattlefarmer wrote: post #517

> This is well-known now. Please avoid this. Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea who Epstein is except that he's some rich, white guy that got caught up in some kind of sex scandal, was arrested and is now dead. I'm not belittling his acts nor ignoring his accusers, I'm saying that I did not know . Now let me explain why. Over the past couple of years, there have been non-stop stories of one powerful wh…

How can we expect the republic to survive if some of the most capable people try so actively to not pay attention to what's going on outside their bubble?

This might surprise you, but I'd prefer people be up to speed on matters of public policy (school funding, environmental regulation, labor laws, etc.)

I can't imagine what relevance you think this case has to the lives of most people on this forum, or even to most people living in the USA. It doesn't impact their future, their well-being, the well-being of people they know or are likely to know, or have (any? much?) lasting meaning for rational policy decisions.

The survival of the republic is most assuredly not dependent upon everyone on the internet clinging to the details of every morbidly awful high-profile sexual misconduct case.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#602

Post by sgt101 »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #535
sgt101 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why two beautiful young women though - that seems not to be likely due to chance and surely enough to make any rational person wonder what they hell is going on? The thing is to make everyone who you meet a bit complicit. Two young women at the meeting is not quite enough to make anyone at the meeting intervene, but it is enough that there is then a lever - "you were at the october meet, you met Siri and Alexa... you…

> "... so I called mental health services" suddenly find that colleagues are talking about how socially inept they are What is the right behavior then? Should have Joi Ito recognize that "two beautiful young women" bait and cancelled all potential business with Epstein?

>What is the right behavior then?

To contact mental health/wellbeing officers in your institution, and to be on record as having done it. There will be short term costs, but in the long term the costs of not doing so could be catastrophic.

>Should have Joi Ito recognize that "two beautiful young women" bait and cancelled all potential business with Epstein?

I don't know because I wasn't there and I don't know the circumstances around the meeting. In the hypothetical universe I think that the best case is that people's radars click into action and the folks left in the room say "that was super weird, I don't like this, what the hell are we doing talking to these people, let's stop". In the real world when you're doing something you believe in, you need money for that, and you are under pressure, I can imagine that not happening.

A big problem is that it shouldn't be a single person or a narrow group making these decisions. There should be wide group who met with Epstein and knew what was going on, and in the best case I think that it would be good to get everyone in a room and say "what did we think"? Perhaps also some specific follow up meetings with quieter or more insightful members of the group "what did you think?". One question "ok, does anyone have a red flag here?" would (I think) give me a lot of comfort even if it later turned out that I had made a deal with Stalin - at least I asked, at least I wasn't just a fool.

Process and culture - yet again.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#603

Post by dennisgorelik »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #588
dennisgorelik wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does "sex trafficked" mean? Is it prostitution? Sexual slavery? Why do you use such an unclear term in a discussion?

Is that really an important question? Is there an definition that would make it okay?

Yes, "why do you use 'sex trafficking' term?" is an important question.

Yes: if under "sex trafficking" we understand [consensual] "prostitution", then in some states it is OK.

But even if "sex trafficking" is not ok -- there are various degrees of "not ok".

That is why it is important to use clear definitions in a discussion. Unclear "sex trafficking" term converts discussion from rational to irrational, when everyone is free to imagine what exactly "sex trafficking" means.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#604

Post by ljm »

topspin wrote: post #548
cattlefarmer wrote: post #517

> This is well-known now. Please avoid this. Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea who Epstein is except that he's some rich, white guy that got caught up in some kind of sex scandal, was arrested and is now dead. I'm not belittling his acts nor ignoring his accusers, I'm saying that I did not know . Now let me explain why. Over the past couple of years, there have been non-stop stories of one powerful wh…

> A good number of us here are in the tech industry, we're busy enough as it is. Might want to tune back in a bit; the demise of Epstein is one of the most kelptocratic things that's ever happened in the US. It doesn't even matter exactly how he died; there is no 'fact pattern' you can subscribe to that isn't a consequence of in-your-face public corruption.

To be fair, remember also that this happened in the US, and there are plenty of people who are tuned into what is going on closer to home.

We're not all Americans here.

Although if I was going to comment on something very specific to the US and wasn't quite sure what it was about, I'd probably do some fact-finding beforehand.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#605

Post by [deleted] »

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #80
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Good. Here’s a particularly damning passage from Ronan Farrow’s New Yorker article [1]: > According to Swenson, Ito had informed Cohen that Epstein “never goes into any room without his two female ‘assistants,’ ” whom he wanted to bring to the meeting at the Media Lab. Swenson objected to this, too, and it was decided that the assistants would be allowed to accompany Epstein but would wait outside the meeting room. >…

On the day they met, Epstein wasn't a fugitive. He was exonerated. Due diligence showed that Epstein went through the legal process and came out the other end intact. Epstein remained a powerful, rich, influential who clearly established himself as among the highest class of political elites. Refusing Epstein's money would have hurt the lab's reputation among his people. Accepting the money was far less costly.

[deleted]

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#606

Post by ajross »

ineedasername wrote: post #452
ajross wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relevant to that quote, it's important to point out that this kind of influence peddling fell apart, not when Epstein himself got caught, but when enough people at a high level decided they didn't want to be part of it. Ito himself clearly viewed himself as a kind of fellow traveller in Epstein's world (no idea if that involves sex trafficing! That's not my point!). Gates did too. But Signe Swenson wasn't as willing…

So the only thing that can stop a hetero man is not a hetero man? No. Men who bought into his image were a certain type of person much more narrow in category than hetero man. And so you don't get the wrong idea, I'm absolutely not saying diversity isn't important. It is, for so many reasons, important to have people of diverse backgrounds and experiences around, in positions of authority, at all levels. Just not for…

> It is, for so many reasons, important to have people of diverse backgrounds and experiences around, in positions of authority, at all levels. Just not for this one particular reason of sniffing out predators.

You're being hyperspecific here with your disagreement.

I think if start enumerating them, you'll find almost all of those advantages you believe in are isomorphic to "different perspectives prevent groupthink". And alignment with the social world of a hyper-rich sex peddler is absolutely a kind of groupthink, no?

Again, Epstein could have his way with organizations run by horny men. That was literally his scam. And as the article (and others) details, this remained true even after he got caught, because enough horny men didn't "really" see what he did as so bad. But that ended once someone was in the room who didn't see things through that lens. That is diversity at work.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#607

Post by wkearney99 »

ALittleLight wrote: post #338
DSingularity wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubt? Care to elaborate and substantiate?

Epstein was connected to many high profile, wealthy, and politically connected people. If he went to trial, his connections to these people may be exposed, and they may face legal liability. There are a number of suspicious circumstances regarding Epstein's alleged suicide. In no particular order: * Multiple bones in Epstein's neck were broken. This is possible in a suicide, but broken bones are more consistent with…

Pay attention to which MCC staff get moved/promoted or die. Someone knows and will 'want more' than they were initially paid. They'll either take a bump up or get bumped off.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#608

Post by penguintester »

watwut wrote: post #555
lopmotr wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with a charity accepting donations from someone naughty? It doesn't make them complicit in their offences. Criminals often donate money to charities and victims in an effort to get reduced sentences, at least in my country.

Should rich criminal have ability to buy lesser sentence then poor criminal?

Should children starve due to lack of charitable funds?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#609

Post by asveikau »

watwut wrote: post #547
asveikau wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You appear angry at me. I didn't argue anything in bad faith or attempt to distract anyone. Nor do I think the thing I said is totally irrelevant. There is a generic thing to be said about the "criminal-philanthropist" concept, it is a topic that many of us have not considered until stories in recent years, which seem to be a trend of more than one such offender, brought it to the forefront.

You said this: > It all highlights the difficult job facing people tasked with taking money from donors in this way. They won't always have 20/20 hindsight. It does not highlight that and no hindsight was needed. What was needed was to not go out of your way to conceal taking money you know you should not. You converted situation into completely different situation.

In quoting me, you cut off my comments mid-paragraph. That is removal of context. I described several hypotheticals, the hindsight question being one.

Yes we can point at the misdeeds of Ito and others and they are awful. But there is a nonzero amount of people here that could fall into similar traps if they were in a position to accept millions from shady characters, which most of us aren't. If Ito, as bad as his acts were, had full realization of consequences (as he now does in hindsight), do you think he would have done this? I don't know the guy, but I am guessing not.

That is not to exculpate him or trivialize or distract. He screwed up majorly.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#610

Post by rmrfrmrf »

paganel wrote: post #566
colechristensen wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we expect the republic to survive if some of the most capable people try so actively to not pay attention to what's going on outside their bubble?

Because they’re too busy counting their money. We’re the lackeys of the mighty and powerful and when the “common people” sometime try to react to the visible power imbalances some of us feel the need to obey and defend our masters. Source: me, a desilusioned programmer approaching my 40s

> too busy counting their money.

Or lack of money. The current economy, even for those in the professional class (given the absurd costs of living in tech cities), is designed to maximize precarity and force people into such a hustle mentality that they can barely pay attention to the world around them. It is truly the billionaire class vs the rest of us. We're all in this together.

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