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Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

nytimes.com

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Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#451

Post by gfodor »

telaelit wrote: post #373
docker_up wrote: post #350

I don't understand the outrage. He was convicted of a crime, and he served his time. In hindsight, the sentence was too light, but as regular people are we really supposed to understand all the details? If I met someone who went to jail, should she be exiled forever after serving her sentence? I just don't understand. And people get lenient sentences all the time, am I as a non-lawyer supposed to understand this and…

He raped and trafficked underage girls. He video taped them and flaunted them around powerful people. You really want to defend a monster like that?

The poster is not defending Epstein (is anyone?) but is instead defending (in the abstract) people who may have met him, heard that he had been convicted and served time for sociliting underage women, and, given no other information about him, decided that given he had served his time with no further convictions that he had been rehabilitated and should not be alienated.

For every Epstein, there are others who have been convicted of similar (or worse) crimes who, ten years later, have served their time, are reformed, and are no longer a threat to society. This doesn't mean you don't have the right to choose to avoid interacting with them (I personally wouldn't when it comes to underage solicitation as was Epstein's conviction), but I'm inclined to agree with the poster that I wouldn't morally judge those who do because they on good faith, and with no contrary evidence, assume the person has faced justice and has been rehabilitated. I think it's important that as a society we don't have a general rule that it's OK to discriminate against convicted felons -- it seems wise and just to, in general, try to forgive and be fair to those who have been convicted of a crime in the past and who have no other evidence to disprove the claim they have changed and are rehabilitated.

To me this has no bearing on the details of this specific case here, because based upon peoples' behavior it seems likely that everyone involved actually knew this guy was still an abuser after his conviction. It sounds like Epstein made a point of telling people about his behavior as a means of controlling them, so in general anyone who took money from this guy I think is guilty of at the very least a moral failure.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#452

Post by ineedasername »

ajross wrote: post #28
jakelazaroff wrote: post #3

Good. Here’s a particularly damning passage from Ronan Farrow’s New Yorker article [1]: > According to Swenson, Ito had informed Cohen that Epstein “never goes into any room without his two female ‘assistants,’ ” whom he wanted to bring to the meeting at the Media Lab. Swenson objected to this, too, and it was decided that the assistants would be allowed to accompany Epstein but would wait outside the meeting room. >…

Relevant to that quote, it's important to point out that this kind of influence peddling fell apart, not when Epstein himself got caught, but when enough people at a high level decided they didn't want to be part of it. Ito himself clearly viewed himself as a kind of fellow traveller in Epstein's world (no idea if that involves sex trafficing! That's not my point!). Gates did too. But Signe Swenson wasn't as willing…

So the only thing that can stop a hetero man is not a hetero man? No. Men who bought into his image were a certain type of person much more narrow in category than hetero man. And so you don't get the wrong idea, I'm absolutely not saying diversity isn't important. It is, for so many reasons, important to have people of diverse backgrounds and experiences around, in positions of authority, at all levels. Just not for this one particular reason of sniffing out predators.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#453

Post by docker_up »

chasing wrote: post #428
docker_up wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe in your right to do so. But what about people who feel otherwise and think that by serving out his sentence he has paid for their sins? If those people associate with criminals who have served their sentence, are those people worse in your eyes? It seems like not only is redemption for criminals no longer allowed, but you're not allowed to believe in redemption for others as well.

I don’t know what we’re arguing. If you want to professionally associate with people who have raped and exploited kids from a position of extreme wealth and privilege, then I guess you’re probably legally allowed to, as long as you’re not putting people in danger. You have to decide where you’re at on that. I know where I’m at. I think most people do. Which is why they’re disgusted.

The question isn't about legality. It's about morality. Is it morally wrong to judge people who decide to associate with criminals after they have served their sentence? That to me is the crux of the issue here.

What it sounds like is that criminals are not absolved by serving their sentence. Or maybe some are but it depends on the crime? And sometimes it's okay to ostracize those that believe that criminals are absolved by serving their sentence, depending on the crime?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#454

Post by johnny22 »

nf8nnfufuu wrote: post #326
tw04 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's weird for a 60 year old dude to be traveling with unrelated women who are under the age of 18? Why are you so incredulous that people would assume the worst when the guy had a reputation and the girls looked way too young to be traveling the world with the sleazeball?

Paragraph said nothing about the girls being under 18. It says "young women". Also didn't say anything about his reputation (at the time the story took place).

that is a in fact a big problem with some of the earlier reporting around stories about Epstein. Lots of headlines ran with "young women", but deeper in it explcitly says "as young as 14"

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#455

Post by azinman2 »

nullc wrote: post #232
CydeWeys wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just spitballing here, but if someone is involved in delivering millions of dollars' worth of donations to you, it would be reasonable to perform a basic background check on them, just to guard against huge potential PR problems. I doubt that they do the same over, say, $500 donations from random people, but once you're into the millions of dollars, you really need to know who you're dealing with. Background chec…

Hi. According to MIT Epstein donated ~800k over 20 years, looking into a sudden large donor makes sense, but AFAIK there wouldn't have been anything to find 20 years ago. Certainly possible, but it would be interesting to understand the timeline and reasons. The "keep this donation anonymous" would take on an entirely different meaning if it was prior to the prohibition, for example.

Except they hid millions as an anonymous donor per the nymag article. That’s whats so damaging.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#456

Post by docker_up »

gfodor wrote: post #451
telaelit wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He raped and trafficked underage girls. He video taped them and flaunted them around powerful people. You really want to defend a monster like that?

The poster is not defending Epstein (is anyone?) but is instead defending (in the abstract) people who may have met him, heard that he had been convicted and served time for sociliting underage women, and, given no other information about him, decided that given he had served his time with no further convictions that he had been rehabilitated and should not be alienated. For every Epstein, there are others who have b…

Thank you, this is exactly the point I'm making.

And in this specific case, it sounds like the MIT director attempted to conceal donations from someone he knew was banned, so his resignation is just.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#457

Post by jakelazaroff »

oh_sigh wrote: post #155
ngold wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the lesson here is, leave your sex trafficked models at home when conducting business. It is telling how common this must have been for the thousands of years before the internet. What was Charlemagnes wife, like 13 when she started getting pregnant?

Is there any evidence the women were sex trafficked? What if they were young adults who made an independent decision to be the assistant to Epstein?

I mentioned this to a similar comment elsewhere in the thread, but this is a weird horse to hitch your wagon to. Even if these particular women weren’t trafficked, the Media Lab staff’s general suspicions about Epstein were obviously correct.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#458

Post by DonHopkins »

MacArthur Foundation @macfound

The MacArthur Foundation today accepted the resignation of Joi Ito as a member of our board and our affiliate @LeverforChange , effective immediately. We thank Ito for his service.

https://twitter.com/macfound/status/1170443088055144448

Good god, did they really have to thank Joi Ito for his service?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#459

Post by gfodor »

totalZero wrote: post #246
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #186

More and more problems seem to be linked to provenance of money. Money Laundering of dirty cash is one major obvious example (see impact on everything from London house prices to international banking) and yet just being able to trace / label money coming out of Epstein and into MIT lab would have raised this issue a decade ago Imagine somehow being able to tag bitcoin address / transactions with "this money came fro…

That's such a bizarre concept. Morality isn't something that can be inherited by accepting research contributions, in my book. Why taint the money, when it can help us learn, build, heal, and grow? Epstein, not the money he donated, is responsible for bad things he did. As an alum, I'm not surprised at the Institute's cowardice, but I'd like to see MIT stand up for someone, ANYONE in its community when under fire pub…

As a thought exercise the only morally justifiable framework I can conceive of for this would be some kind of crypto or escrow based channel for anonymous donations that would be completely 'laundered' of the origin. For example, if a donor donates to this channel, there'd have to be some mechanism in place that even if they accurately stated publicly the amount and time they took the transaction, there would be no way to prove that claim. Then, if a blacklisted donor comes to you, decline their offer to donate in name but note the above channel exists

In a situation where people are communicating and facilitating the donation with such a blacklisted person they are a) able to confirm the donation and b) are in a position to participate in some kind of quid pro quo -- this seems extremely hard to justify given the difficulty of disproving that no such quid pro quo took place. In this specific instance, it sounds like Epstein did receive material attention and visitation so safely assuming that this was a neutral transaction flies out the window completely.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#460

Post by remind_me_again »

joering2 wrote: post #351
ritchiea wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are there inevitably people who want to do the mental gymnastics of assuming innocence for a man convicted of sex trafficking? I understand assuming innocence the first time someone is accused of anything unsavory because mistakes happen. But once you are convicted, serve jail time and are suspiciously behaving in the same manner... Who are we serving by assuming innocence? And let me remind you that in society w…

> Why are there inevitably people who want to do the mental gymnastics of assuming innocence for a man convicted of sex trafficking? This is extremely good question that I continue to be unable to find an answer. Much bigger case than Epstein would be that of Donald Trump. Everyone knew he is a six-time bankruptee, posted record $1B (billion) dollar loss with IRS and haven't made any of his many business ventures suc…

Why this is downvoted ?
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