Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 770 posts

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#331

Post by ryacko »

currymj wrote: post #237

the HN comments on all the recent Epstein stories have been very strange. I have to assume at least some of the more contrarian views are coming from people who haven't been following the full story in the US news, and so don't quite grasp the nature of the allegations. The case is far from just "some rich guy turned out to be an abuser". If you can't understand why the reaction is so strong against those who maintai…

I think it is simple to understand common understanding of criminal justice when no one asks where was Michael Jackson’s servants when he decided to spend private time with terminally ill children.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#332

Post by AndrewBissell »

coldtea wrote: post #211
googlryas wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the critical thinking "Epstein did bad things. Therefore, everything Epstein did was bad"? Critical thinking can tell you there is a higher chance the women were sex trafficked considering the employer and his immoral proclivities. It can't tell you if they actually were or not.

No, the critical thinking mentioned, is: 1) If a powerful man who has been accused of sex trafficking 2) shows up with two girls less than half his age, 3) who are from eastern europe (while he is an American, not exactly where he'd get girlfriends or assistants), 4) he passes them of like his "assistants", 5) while they look like models, 6) and they make everybody uncomfortable to the point of telling them to signal…

This thread is amazing. Epstein could have confessed to personally trafficking children from the former Yugoslavia (an actual thing that Blackwater was involved in, btw), and if he showed up 5 years later with a couple of barely legal Eastern Europeans in tow, there'd be commenters ready to insist you never can tell for sure!

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#333

Post by xtian »

DSingularity wrote: post #166
eloisius wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be some doubt about his suicide, but you’re right.

Doubt? Care to elaborate and substantiate?

Care to elaborate and substantiate your certainty? Doubt is the default stance of the rational and inquisitive mind.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#334

Post by rayiner »

grandmczeb wrote: post #318
rayiner wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is “boys night out” but you wouldn’t refer to grown men as boys.

I don’t know if this is a cultural thing, but at least in California I hear the word “boys” used to refer to grown men pretty frequently.

I’ve never heard a grown man referred to as a “boy” except in the pejorative sense/as part of a turn of phrase.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#335

Post by scarejunba »

ritchiea wrote: post #325
roenxi wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sort of rests on whether the women were 'trafficked' in any meaningful sense. If they were not then the media lab team were being judgemental and unpleasant even though they did turn out to be right about his character. If they were then everyone involved is potentially at moral fault, irrespective of who was accepting what. The greater story of this scandal has parts that should never have happened and parts th…

Why are there inevitably people who want to do the mental gymnastics of assuming innocence for a man convicted of sex trafficking? I understand assuming innocence the first time someone is accused of anything unsavory because mistakes happen. But once you are convicted, serve jail time and are suspiciously behaving in the same manner... Who are we serving by assuming innocence? And let me remind you that in society w…

I get part of the impulse. The concept that attractive Eastern European women spending their time with a billionaire means that they were trafficked somewhat strips them of agency. Like "you wouldn't do this of your own accord". Maybe they would.

Of course, in this case, the fellow turned out to be a monster. But Sir Richard Branson is on the level AFAIK and he hangs out with attractive women. Presumably they enjoy the company.

EDIT: I can't answer the threads below because I've been timed out for making this comment. Fair enough, but I should clarify: My point is _precisely that_. It's the child prostitution that's the problem. You can just point at the "solicitation of a minor" thing directly. Making it about the attractive Eastern European women is completely unnecessary and only useful to decry the notion that they may choose otherwise than what the MIT folks would choose.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#336

Post by AndrewBissell »

breck wrote: post #159
WAHa_06x36 wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a thought: Don't rush in to give "contrarian views" on things you don't know about. That does not help anyone at all.

Well one of my best friends and mentors was an “Eastern European model” who I think would be offended by this quote, which can come across as a patronizing attitude. She would say not to judge by appearance, and that perhaps Epstein is helping these women more than these women would. Don’t just a book by its cover.

Again, we're not talking here about a blanket judgment of "attractive Eastern European women" or even "attractive Eastern European women with a much older man." We're talking about this in the context of them showing up with a man who was a confessed and convicted pedophilic sex trafficker. That's why people were entirely in the right to assume that perhaps they didn't have their full agency in the situation. As a matter of fact one of Epstein's & Ghislaine Maxwell's tactics was to confiscate passports, which could very well have been the case with these women Epstein brought to MIT.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#337

Post by bonoboTP »

rayiner wrote: post #268
ryanlol wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And why would that exclude girls? Would “girls’ night out” be an unusual expression where you’re from?

So is “boys night out” but you wouldn’t refer to grown men as boys.

There is no female equivalent to "guy", so "girl" is used instead.

You're intentionally misinterpreting things.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#338

Post by ALittleLight »

DSingularity wrote: post #166
eloisius wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be some doubt about his suicide, but you’re right.

Doubt? Care to elaborate and substantiate?

Epstein was connected to many high profile, wealthy, and politically connected people. If he went to trial, his connections to these people may be exposed, and they may face legal liability.

There are a number of suspicious circumstances regarding Epstein's alleged suicide. In no particular order:

* Multiple bones in Epstein's neck were broken. This is possible in a suicide, but broken bones are more consistent with a homicide. [1]

* Multiple video cameras malfunctioned outside Epstein's cell coincident with his death. [2]

* Epstein's guards, who were supposed to be regularly checking on him did not. They were "asleep" before, during, and after Epstein's death. They later falsified records about this fact. [3]

* The explanation for the failed video cameras and the sleeping guards is that the MCC is under staffed. Yet, that's at odds with the fact that there was only one other suicide in the past 40 years at the MCC [4].

I try to think about how I would regard Epstein's death if it happened in a history book, in a foreign country.

"There was a guy who had material implicating numerous powerful figures. While he was being held in prison, recently released from suicide watch, isolated from his former cell mate in a cell by himself, cameras failed, his guards stopped checking on him, he became the first suicide in more than a couple decades by hanging himself by kneeling so forcefully against his bed sheet [5] that he broke multiple bones in his neck."

I don't think, if I were reading about this at a distance, that I would have any real doubts about considering Epstein murdered. The idea that Epstein's suicide is as simple as alleged strikes me as preposterous.

1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/autopsy-finds-broken...

2. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-people-jeffrey-epstein-ca...

3. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/13/nyregion/jeffrey-epstein-...

4. https://www.foxnews.com/us/epstein-new-york-lockup-suicides

5. https://www.foxnews.com/us/jeffrey-epstein-used-bedsheet-to-...

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#339

Post by ryacko »

googlryas wrote: post #274
liability wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. Are you and oh_sigh the same person?

Yes - sorry. I had one logged in on my laptop and one on my phone which I switched to. I initially created this secondary account to talk to some other poster about hiring advice at my company without linking it to other autobiographic details I've possibly posted on my other account in the past, but have since unfortunately muddled the two in a big OPSEC fail(don't worry - I'm not in cybersecurity).

Your not behind ryanlol too, are you?

Strange arguments from people with weak hamming distances to my first name.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#340

Post by pryce »

p0llard wrote: post #108

Internal email this afternoon from President Reif: To the members of the MIT community, Last night, The New Yorker published an article that contains deeply disturbing allegations about the engagement between individuals at the Media Lab and Jeffrey Epstein. Because the accusations in the story are extremely serious, they demand an immediate, thorough and independent investigation. This morning, I asked MIT’s General…

If Xeni Jardin's claim below is true, Joi Ito needs to resign from more than just MIT:

"I told the @nytimes everything. So did whistleblowers I was in touch with inside @MIT and @Edge. They printed none of the most damning truths. @joi is on the board of the NYT. THANK GOD FOR @RonanFarrow"

EDIT: NYTimes is now indicating that Ito has resigned from NYT Co board, effective immediately [2].

[1] https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1170352857952002048

[2] https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1170449747041226757

Post reply on HN