Live data from Hacker News

Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

nytimes.com

61–70 of 122 posts

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#61

The Decline and Fall of the American Empire. Will the students who purchased these essays go on to build bridges, rockets to the moon, cure cancer? Hah... Interestingly, there is probably little or no supply of German, Dutch, Scandinavian bootleg essay mills.

That's a bit dramatic.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#62
post #54

When I studied business in college, I'd say that half of my senior year class were gunning for the same banking and consulting gigs. In either case, it was known and understood that those types of employers were obsessed with your grades. Unless you happened to have the most amazing and prestigious internship / experience, your GPA would make or break your chances at such firms. At the same time, we knew from interns…

> When I studied Engineering, however, I didn't see much of this culture. When I studied engineering I saw almost the same culture. Firms were looking for the same students with similar GPAs and sadly I was not one of them. I distinctly remember going to the campus job fair and having my resume repeatedly being put into the "maybe" pile. My academic work wasn't amazing but my extracurriculars were a few engineering p…

When I was recruiting interns for CS at Apple, a good project trumped just about any GPA north of 1.0

If I could see you solve problems with code in a got repo with history, and you can solve a problem live for me on a laptop or whiteboard, I don’t need to approximate your ability through coursework because I have more directly measured it. This gets fuzzier for non-entry level qualities, but they don’t really teach those in schools anyways. I always tell people in school to lean heavily into their projects.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#63
This can extend beyond school. Once we hired someone who had a good phone interview, and not that great an interview, though there were some language issues. We were growing rapidly and this person got the job.

They liked to work late, often talking on the phone...within a few days we realized that they were discussing the work with someone on the phone, who had probably been on the phone screen and probably had a day job. The employee couldn’t program at all, and was employed by us about a week total.

I don’t know how they made it through the interview process but the VP of engineering immediately revamped the hiring process!

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, as engineers.

That company sucks then. It might be hard to measure between competent engineers but bad engineers stick out like a sore thumb. If that keeps happening it means the entire engineering department sucks at those companies.

When I say prestigious jobs, I don't mean random companies you've never heard of - these include companies well known for their engineering excellence. I don't know how their careers advanced, so maybe they quickly found themselves looking for work elsewhere. No hiring process is perfect. We've all had to deal with less-than-excellent coworkers.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#65
post #54

When I studied business in college, I'd say that half of my senior year class were gunning for the same banking and consulting gigs. In either case, it was known and understood that those types of employers were obsessed with your grades. Unless you happened to have the most amazing and prestigious internship / experience, your GPA would make or break your chances at such firms. At the same time, we knew from interns…

> When I studied Engineering, however, I didn't see much of this culture. When I studied engineering I saw almost the same culture. Firms were looking for the same students with similar GPAs and sadly I was not one of them. I distinctly remember going to the campus job fair and having my resume repeatedly being put into the "maybe" pile. My academic work wasn't amazing but my extracurriculars were a few engineering p…

My academic background from Engineering was in Electrical Engineering, so very much a "traditional" background, i.e where most firms hiring were rather old and stodgy, compared to modern high-tech SV companies.

The reputable firms usually had a more or less firm cut-off around 3.0, while smaller firms were more lenient.

Most reputable finance and consulting firms wouldn't even look at your CV unless you had a 3.5

I think CS firms are more forgiving, and care less about credentialism. Obviously you'll have some, but if you're a kick-ass developer with a portfolio to show, most companies are willing to take a look. I think a lot of firms understand that they're missing out on excellent non-traditional hires, because HR and old hiring practices have been gatekeeping them away.

Microsoft was the first big tech firm I ever spoke with, and interviewed for, and they said that as long as you had taken at least one class in data structures, you were welcome to the interview - didn't mater if you had studied history or CS.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people that cheated, were utterly incompetent, and got prestigious jobs at tech firms.

As engineers? Like, actual individual contributions and not managers? Doing what?

The only engineering firms I've interviewed for which had rigorous technical interviews, were consulting firms. Most other firms were almost exclusively focused on soft-skills and personality, and then some pretty softball technical questions.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#67

When I studied business in college, I'd say that half of my senior year class were gunning for the same banking and consulting gigs. In either case, it was known and understood that those types of employers were obsessed with your grades. Unless you happened to have the most amazing and prestigious internship / experience, your GPA would make or break your chances at such firms. At the same time, we knew from interns…

And these same folks continue gaming the system once employed by these banks. Go figure.

Isn't a lot of banking basically about gaming the system?

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#68
post #47
post #5

Visiting a high school my friend founded to be inquiry-driven project-based learning from the ground up moved me away from teaching in ways divorced from regular life. From a systemic approach, it's hard not to look at the universities and professors creating the system that this article describes: assign homework irrelevant to their lives and they'll find irrelevant ways to do it. Since I've never written an analyti…

You've never had to read and understand some data, analyze it, and then communicate your results via written word in your career? I'm totally willing to grant you that the majority of careers do not require this skill but most white collar work does. Agreed that essays are overused but I'm just surprised to hear you downplay them so much.

The typical academic essay doesn't (IME) really prepare students that well. What I felt worked best was a CS professor I had whose courses were entirely project-based and 50% of the grade was based on a report of your work. It was much closer to the type of writing an engineer will need to do and it was one of the most helpful experiences I had in school.

Learning how to write well is important, but I didn't feel that any of the lit classes I took helped greatly.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#69
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I studied Engineering, however, I didn't see much of this culture. When I studied engineering I saw almost the same culture. Firms were looking for the same students with similar GPAs and sadly I was not one of them. I distinctly remember going to the campus job fair and having my resume repeatedly being put into the "maybe" pile. My academic work wasn't amazing but my extracurriculars were a few engineering p…

My academic background from Engineering was in Electrical Engineering, so very much a "traditional" background, i.e where most firms hiring were rather old and stodgy, compared to modern high-tech SV companies. The reputable firms usually had a more or less firm cut-off around 3.0, while smaller firms were more lenient. Most reputable finance and consulting firms wouldn't even look at your CV unless you had a 3.5 I t…

That is reassuring coming from Microsoft. It sets a benchmark that other F500s can use. I didn’t have what it took to be a MechE. I did use my extracurricular activities to get into web dev. Starting with flash, action script and JavaScript.

Of all my friends who graduated as engineers half are in IT or software engineering at this point. There traditional engineering careers were awe fully short for the amount of effort put in.

Re: Writing papers for American college students has become lucrative overseas

#70

When I studied business in college, I'd say that half of my senior year class were gunning for the same banking and consulting gigs. In either case, it was known and understood that those types of employers were obsessed with your grades. Unless you happened to have the most amazing and prestigious internship / experience, your GPA would make or break your chances at such firms. At the same time, we knew from interns…

And these same folks continue gaming the system once employed by these banks. Go figure.

Hmm. A lot of people in one place obsessed with getting the best numbers and willing to game the system any way they can to get them.

Sounds like the cause of pretty much every banking scandal ever, from Nick Leeson, to Libor, to the subprime crisis to Wells Fargo to...

Post reply on HN