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The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

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Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#131

Post by Gibbon1 »

navigatesol wrote: post #114
compiler-guy wrote: post #109

The level of hubris here is pretty high. "No reason"? "No performance benefit"? Porsche is spending billions of dollars to bring a very high performance track-focused sports-sedan to the market. Hundreds of extremely good engineers are getting paid millions of dollars to figure this problem out. I'm sure the transmission is a giant set of engineering tradeoffs (what project isn't), and maybe it won't work out and wil…

There are people on this site and others that truly believe Elon Musk is the smartest engineer on the planet, and by definition his technology is always the best.

Well certainly. But behind that guy is a lot of compentent and professional engineers and techs doing the actual work.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#132

Post by Gibbon1 »

sdfswfsafaswf wrote: post #99
youeseh wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part of cruising at 120+ mph for long distances is not realistic?

1. outside Germany, cops 2. power scales as v^3 destroying range.

We shouldn't lose sight of #3.

3. This is a toy we're talking about here.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#133

Post by Gibbon1 »

lostlogin wrote: post #120
Zanni wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: how is this antisocial behavior? I understand wanting to stick with the flow of traffic when you're part of the pack, but if you're in front of the pack, what's the advantage (to anyone) of hanging back?

> what's the advantage (to anyone) of hanging back? It might just be me, but driving at night on rural roads is much more pleasant when you’re behind a car that’s travelling at the same speed and route. Having someone follow is much worse, with headlight glare being irritating.

> with headlight glare being irritating.

Of topic, but I wish we'd switch to polarized headlights.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#134

Post by kenhwang »

adrr wrote: post #42
rconti wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and it's an ancient car, by EV standards. I'd hope that a Porsche that nobody has taken delivery of yet and costs way more is better. Last time I was at the track (in my BMW M car, mind you) we had a couple of Model 3 Performance cars, and a couple of Model S. I could pass the Model S with ease. I couldn't get close to the Model 3 Performance.

Model 3 performance needs ceramic brakes for the ring. Car is too heavy for the Brembos and it is at the limit for brake size.

The Taycan currently only comes with two brake options: carbon surface coated brakes or full carbon ceramic brakes.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#135

Post by ztjio »

gleenn wrote: post #121
compiler-guy wrote: post #109

The level of hubris here is pretty high. "No reason"? "No performance benefit"? Porsche is spending billions of dollars to bring a very high performance track-focused sports-sedan to the market. Hundreds of extremely good engineers are getting paid millions of dollars to figure this problem out. I'm sure the transmission is a giant set of engineering tradeoffs (what project isn't), and maybe it won't work out and wil…

I understand your sentiment. I'd like to add the fact that the original Tesla was a two-speed, or perhaps it was the original design for the Model S, but they scrapped it for simplicity IIRC.

It was in the roadster, it was dropped due to poor reliability for all future designs.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#136

Post by ztjio »

compiler-guy wrote: post #109

The level of hubris here is pretty high. "No reason"? "No performance benefit"? Porsche is spending billions of dollars to bring a very high performance track-focused sports-sedan to the market. Hundreds of extremely good engineers are getting paid millions of dollars to figure this problem out. I'm sure the transmission is a giant set of engineering tradeoffs (what project isn't), and maybe it won't work out and wil…

So, I'll just hop in here and lay out the spoiler.

There is a major performance difference in the Taycan, it's endurance, and it's highly likely this transmission is a key element to achieving it.

For those that don't know, Tesla's cars can not keep their maximum performance up for a very long time. The battery gets hot and lowers power output until it cools back down. The Taycan, while not having as impressive max specs or range (and some serious questionability about the charging claims) CAN keep its maximum performance indefinitely. At least through a full discharge of the battery pack, but, also after a recharge it can keep going and they demonstrated this recently with a 24 hour marathon test drive stopping only to charge it.

So, without really getting into all the weird perception based arguments, there is clearly a difference in performance and the transmission may be critical to it.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#137

Post by theluketaylor »

mtw wrote: post #60
gleglegle wrote: post #5

It's a little surprising that even with a two-speed Gearbox the Taycan has neither better range nor low range 0-60 acceleration than the Tesla P100D (which has the same size battery). Obviously spec comparisons aren't the whole story and the handling and high-range acceleration may be better on the Taycan. Looking forward to seeing more comparisons and already glad to see more EV models in this category. Edited incor…

Porsche are experts in transmissions and gearboxes, but are starting (almost) from scratch for batteries. Give them a few years, they'll catch on.

They have built the 918 hybrid hypercar and a number of phev versions of their production cars that are faster than the pure ICE versions. The hybrid 919 le mans winner is also a triumph.

I think porsche has been developing electric expertise better than just about any other established brand, but they are focused on charging speed and consistent performance rather than straight range.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#138

Post by STRML »

driverdan wrote: post #111
adrr wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure on the S or X but my model 3 AWD has less range than RWD. AWD is quicker by 10%.

AWD adds more weight and drive train losses.

This is only true on the Model 3. Indeed, on the S, the dual-motor variants were more efficient due to different gearing. It is still unclear the community why the 3 dual motor variants are as much as 10% less efficient. It is not totally accounted for by weight, and the extra induction motor should be capable of torque sleep.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#139

Post by theluketaylor »

eldenbishop wrote: post #104
adrr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never h…

From road and track: """At launch, Porsche will offer two versions of the Taycan—the Turbo and Turbo S. The Turbo will carry an MSRP of $153,510 at launch, while the Turbo S will cost $187,610. Both of those numbers are minus destination charge.""" I suppose that leaves room for a non-turbo (lol) Taycan closer to your prices sometime in the future.

There are a number of lower trims coming. Plain taycan will be single motor, I believe they mentioned a 4S that will be the lowest dual motor option and a GTS, all below the turbo.

Porsche has been saying all along the base taycan will be right around the base panamara price, around 90K. Makes sense since taycan shares rear suspension and interior parts with panamara, and unlike other ICE cars where BEV raises costs, the cost of motor + battery is likely to be around the price of a porsche engine. Panamara turbo is 150K just like taycan turbo as well.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#140

Post by STRML »

p1mrx wrote: post #126

> comes mated to a motor with a maximum power rating of 140 kW Is that a typo? The Chevy Bolt and Hyundai Kona both have 150 kW motors, and Teslas start above 200 kW.

They don't have any actual inside information about the Taycan, so they switch to talking about the ZF transmission.
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