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The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

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Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#31

Post by gburdell3 »

elonismycopilot wrote: post #22
rconti wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. I'm wondering what we're missing here. 5% efficiency improvement at high speeds isn't anything to write home about today. The transmission is a known quantity -- it's just gears, it won't get more efficient as they develop it. The efficiency of the whole system (battery/dr…

>True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. There isn't a single published metric in which the Performance Model S doesn't trounce the Taycan.

Does the Taycan overheat and go into limp mode if you take it to the track?

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#32

Post by elonismycopilot »

adrr wrote: post #29
elonismycopilot wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. There isn't a single published metric in which the Performance Model S doesn't trounce the Taycan.

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never h…

Nurburing will be put to the test next week. To compare a 2014 model S or even p85 is pointless. Until then it is just another attempt at hand waving and cherry picking from Porsche.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#33

Post by elihu »

rconti wrote: post #16
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsches have never really been about straightline speed. Always about overall performance and a sports-car feeling. I'm guessing they optimized things like power, gearing and weight placement to offer good acceleration through a range of speeds with amazing handling and decent range at speed.

True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. I'm wondering what we're missing here. 5% efficiency improvement at high speeds isn't anything to write home about today. The transmission is a known quantity -- it's just gears, it won't get more efficient as they develop it. The efficiency of the whole system (battery/dr…

A 5% efficiency gain might be a big deal when it comes to motor heat. Electric motors tend to be around 85-90% efficient or so, and if you can get the motor from, say, 85% efficient to 90% efficient, that might translate to a one-third reduction in waste heat.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#34

Post by zby »

jason46 wrote: post #19
gleglegle wrote: post #5

It's a little surprising that even with a two-speed Gearbox the Taycan has neither better range nor low range 0-60 acceleration than the Tesla P100D (which has the same size battery). Obviously spec comparisons aren't the whole story and the handling and high-range acceleration may be better on the Taycan. Looking forward to seeing more comparisons and already glad to see more EV models in this category. Edited incor…

I've not done a whole lot of research but Tesla has it figured it out, compare a Tesla in power and range with the BMW i8. Maybe Porsche can make a better showing than their German counterpart.

Porsche is German too.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#35

Post by rconti »

adrr wrote: post #29
elonismycopilot wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. There isn't a single published metric in which the Performance Model S doesn't trounce the Taycan.

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never h…

Sure, and it's an ancient car, by EV standards. I'd hope that a Porsche that nobody has taken delivery of yet and costs way more is better.

Last time I was at the track (in my BMW M car, mind you) we had a couple of Model 3 Performance cars, and a couple of Model S.

I could pass the Model S with ease. I couldn't get close to the Model 3 Performance.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#36

Post by dragontamer »

elonismycopilot wrote: post #32
adrr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never h…

Nurburing will be put to the test next week. To compare a 2014 model S or even p85 is pointless. Until then it is just another attempt at hand waving and cherry picking from Porsche.

> Nurburing will be put to the test next week.

Unlikely. The track is fully booked for a while. I know that Musk wants to get an apples-to-apples comparison between the two cars, but Musk needed to start working on this (starting with a Nurburing reservation) months ago.

I'm sure they'll get a test-run in within a few months, but there's no way they'll get the info within a week.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#37

Post by gonehome »

rconti wrote: post #16
Mikeb85 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porsches have never really been about straightline speed. Always about overall performance and a sports-car feeling. I'm guessing they optimized things like power, gearing and weight placement to offer good acceleration through a range of speeds with amazing handling and decent range at speed.

True, and the Taycan may well be a better car in many ways. But a discussion of the gearbox has nothing to do with handling or sports car feeling. I'm wondering what we're missing here. 5% efficiency improvement at high speeds isn't anything to write home about today. The transmission is a known quantity -- it's just gears, it won't get more efficient as they develop it. The efficiency of the whole system (battery/dr…

I think the early versions of the original Tesla roadster had gearboxes with multiple speeds, but Elon eventually got rid of it and settled on just having one for later versions of the roadster (and all subsequent Tesla cars).

I think they found it didn't give much of an advantage when it did work and that they generally just didn't work very well.

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#38

Post by steelframe »

elonismycopilot wrote: post #30
leetcrew wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you're looking for the best car on paper, Porsche is probably not for you.

Well in terms of looks, charging network, city driving, autopilot, price and drag racing I'll take the Tesla. So far we've just seen a bunch of hand waving about how Taycan is better on the track... looks like there is a Model S being sent to Nurburgring to lay that to rest.

> looks like there is a Model S being sent to Nurburgring to lay that to rest.

It looks like that Model S might just be sitting next to the Nurburgring for a while once it gets there.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a28942079/tesla-mod...

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#39

Post by AndrewBissell »

elonismycopilot wrote: post #32
adrr wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nurburgring Ring times. P100D has terrible thermal management and goes into limp mode before completing the course. If people really cared about 0 to 60 times, we see a lot more Dodge Demons on the road instead of 911s and Corvettes. If Porsche can get price point for a regular Taycan below $100k, i'll gladly trade in my Porsche and Tesla for one because it does everything i want. I can drive canyon roads and never h…

Nurburing will be put to the test next week. To compare a 2014 model S or even p85 is pointless. Until then it is just another attempt at hand waving and cherry picking from Porsche.

Lots of jeering on Twitter right now as Nürburgring is saying that Tesla does not have a lap reservation for them next week as Musk had claimed. https://twitter.com/RoadandTrack/status/1170044182808977408

> Porsche has tons of experience setting fast Nürburgring lap times, and a huge asset in the form of factory racer Lars Kern. The Model S Performance is a quick car, but Tesla has no prior experience attempting to lap the Nürburgring. It's hard to imagine the automaker could go out and beat Porsche on its first visit to the track.

Maybe they're hoping Autopilot will set the track record? LOL

Re: The Porsche Taycan's Two-Speed Gearbox

#40

Post by dragontamer »

gleglegle wrote: post #5

It's a little surprising that even with a two-speed Gearbox the Taycan has neither better range nor low range 0-60 acceleration than the Tesla P100D (which has the same size battery). Obviously spec comparisons aren't the whole story and the handling and high-range acceleration may be better on the Taycan. Looking forward to seeing more comparisons and already glad to see more EV models in this category. Edited incor…

> It's a little surprising that even with a two-speed Gearbox the Taycan has neither better range nor low range 0-60 acceleration than the Tesla P100D (which has the same size battery).

0-60 times probably don't matter on the track. Its probably more important to optimize the 60 to 120mph time, which is where the torque of a (single gear) electric motor begins to taper off. I bet that Taycan has superior 60-to-120mph times than any gearbox-free design, which would lead to superior track performance. Especially on a track as big as Nurburgring.

Even on highway driving, 0-60 times kind of don't matter as much as 30-60 times. (Aka: merging into a highway). The only reason to push 0-60 times is for drag-racing really.

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