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SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

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Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#11

Post by ramanujan »

katovatzschyn wrote: post #6

I've checked back on this project from time to time but I've never been satisfied with it. The last I used it was perhaps 2 years ago, returning to MATLAB, Mathematica and Haskell/C. Would any who uses it now or recently care to make a candid comparison between it and its commercial competitors?

Sage is probably quite useful if you are a pure mathematician. The reason I couldn't use it is that it didn't behave well as a library, but they seem to have improved library support since then (http://www.sagemath.org/doc/tutorial/programming.html#sectio...).

But the project has definitely produced at least one A++ bit of code: Cython. That is very much worth learning and complementary to numpy (e.g. Cython/numpy integration: http://wiki.cython.org/tutorials/numpy).

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#12

Post by igravious »

I am writing my master thesis on free & open source mathematical tools. To my shame I have never heard of SageMath, it never came up on my radar. I had heard of Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, maxima, Octave and others. I know that custom software is written in Fortran and C/C++- Why had I not heard of SageMath? Are there any other large open source mathematical projects that may have escaped my notice? Please enlighten me.

The aim of my thesis is to discover why proprietary tools like Maple, Mathlab, and Mathematica have flourished within the mathematics world given that theorem proving and calculating seem to require access to the algorithms for verification processes. I aim to interview the leaders behind both proprietary and open tools to see what drives and motivates them. This video by William Stein http://www.sagemath.org/help-video.html on the SageMath website goes a long way towards answering some of my questions.

I would like to look at this problem space from all angles, economic, ethical, scientific, you name it. I would welcome ideas on research strategies and any and all pointers. Speak up now, no matter how trivial you think your idea!

Thank you tomrod for posting this, thank you.

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#13

Post by cgrubb »

katovatzschyn wrote: post #6

I've checked back on this project from time to time but I've never been satisfied with it. The last I used it was perhaps 2 years ago, returning to MATLAB, Mathematica and Haskell/C. Would any who uses it now or recently care to make a candid comparison between it and its commercial competitors?

The math software I use is Mathematica (Home Ed), Sage, Octave, R, and TeXShop. All open source except for Mathematica.

Mathematica has a few advantages. The input notation can look more like traditional mathematics: adjacency instead of * for multiplication, superscript instead of ^ for exponentiation, fraction notation. I think that cuts down on errors. Variables are symbolic in Mathematica by default. The Mathematica language is something of a defacto standard and WolframAlpha understands it to a certain extent, so you have access for free if you have internet. WolframAlpha mobile gives you CAS on your phone.

That said, an open source version of Mathematica is desirable and Sage should be supported. I keep a table of equivalences at http://hyperpolyglot.org/math to try to lessen the mental burden of using two equivalent products.

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#14

Post by hermanthegerman »

igravious wrote: post #12

I am writing my master thesis on free & open source mathematical tools. To my shame I have never heard of SageMath, it never came up on my radar. I had heard of Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, maxima, Octave and others. I know that custom software is written in Fortran and C/C++- Why had I not heard of SageMath? Are there any other large open source mathematical projects that may have escaped my notice? Please enlighten me…

I used sage quite often when studying. I think many people today learn the one or the other programming language quite early, so it becomes natural to them, and an open source mathematical system like sage which extends their understanding of programming with mathematical/symbolic ideas is more powerful and way easier to adapt than those proprietory systems.

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#15

Post by bane »

tomrod wrote: post #10
bane wrote: post #9

This might sound a bit silly, but I still have never found something that let me work with problems quite as easily as my TI-89/92. Most of the CAS systems I've used feel like coding, while the TI CAS system feels like doing math. Sage just feels like an extension to the Math direction when all I really want is a fast (color) desktop version of my TI-92. The closest I've seen was the old graphing calc that came with…

This meets your fancy? http://lpg.ticalc.org/prj_tiemu/

oh wow...this looks great! Do you know how the keybindings are? One of the nice things about the TI calculators is the custom keyboard...

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#16

Post by tomrod »

bane wrote: post #15
tomrod wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This meets your fancy? http://lpg.ticalc.org/prj_tiemu/

oh wow...this looks great! Do you know how the keybindings are? One of the nice things about the TI calculators is the custom keyboard...

I don't--I just googled "TI92 Emulator" or something to that effect, and this was the first result--and surprisingly nonspammed.

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#17

Post by tomrod »

igravious wrote: post #12

I am writing my master thesis on free & open source mathematical tools. To my shame I have never heard of SageMath, it never came up on my radar. I had heard of Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, maxima, Octave and others. I know that custom software is written in Fortran and C/C++- Why had I not heard of SageMath? Are there any other large open source mathematical projects that may have escaped my notice? Please enlighten me…

Here are some places I would immediately look--you most likely have come across some or all of these. I suspect some of the smaller proprietary products teams may be more accessible in interviewing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer_algebra_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numerical_analysis_soft...

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#18

Post by proee »

bane wrote: post #9

This might sound a bit silly, but I still have never found something that let me work with problems quite as easily as my TI-89/92. Most of the CAS systems I've used feel like coding, while the TI CAS system feels like doing math. Sage just feels like an extension to the Math direction when all I really want is a fast (color) desktop version of my TI-92. The closest I've seen was the old graphing calc that came with…

I'm not saying this is close to a TI-92, but here's a calculator we did a while back that's easy to use and powerful.

http://www.ecalc.com

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#19

Post by igravious »

tomrod wrote: post #17
igravious wrote: post #12

I am writing my master thesis on free & open source mathematical tools. To my shame I have never heard of SageMath, it never came up on my radar. I had heard of Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, maxima, Octave and others. I know that custom software is written in Fortran and C/C++- Why had I not heard of SageMath? Are there any other large open source mathematical projects that may have escaped my notice? Please enlighten me…

Here are some places I would immediately look--you most likely have come across some or all of these. I suspect some of the smaller proprietary products teams may be more accessible in interviewing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_computer_algebra_... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numerical_analysis_soft...

I don't remember seeing these pages. Thanks.

I have bookmarked:

http://directory.fsf.org/category/math/

and

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/FOSS_Education/Research_using_F...

There are a number of other sites dedicated to pre-university level education of mathematics but I was more thinking about my own experience with Maple, Mathematica, and Matlab and FOSS tools of a quality to substitute for these. Having listened to the SageMath intro video I would add Magna to that list I suppose but maybe it is narrower in scope.

I need to know how the tools are categorized. I guess each mathematical field has its own set of tools.

I guess Computer Algebra Systems (CAS) would be the general term for the symbolic math side of things and Automated Theorem Provers (ATP) for the proof theory side of things. Ignoring ATP for the moment I suppose you can subdivide CAS many ways. I wouldn't even know how to list the divisions in mathematics or even if each division had a corresponding type of mathematical tool.

Re: SageMath: Python-based Mathematics. Rock it.

#20

Post by igravious »

hermanthegerman wrote: post #14
igravious wrote: post #12

I am writing my master thesis on free & open source mathematical tools. To my shame I have never heard of SageMath, it never came up on my radar. I had heard of Numpy, scipy, matplotlib, maxima, Octave and others. I know that custom software is written in Fortran and C/C++- Why had I not heard of SageMath? Are there any other large open source mathematical projects that may have escaped my notice? Please enlighten me…

I used sage quite often when studying. I think many people today learn the one or the other programming language quite early, so it becomes natural to them, and an open source mathematical system like sage which extends their understanding of programming with mathematical/symbolic ideas is more powerful and way easier to adapt than those proprietory systems.

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I always thought that the "perfect" mathematical tool should strive for parity with math standard math notation but the way you describe it makes perfect sense from the viewpoint of leveraging existing tools.
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