The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping • Hacker News Board

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#11

Post by wongarsu » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 9:21 AM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #4

flywithdolp wrote: post #3

Ofcourse Amazon will try to protect them selfs against lawsuits I do think that Amazon have some moral issues, Since I came across Amazon M turk. They basically have army of over 500,000 registered workers Those people make few cents per micro tasks while amazon make x10 that amount of each task and leave tiny slice of the cake for its core users.

I highly doubt Amazon makes 10x profit over what they pay their workers. My guess would be that they have very thin margins per worker, and just have a lot of workers.

M'turk doesn't seem that hard too replicate, yet I am not aware of notable competitors (outside of specialized niches like design or captcha solving). If there were massive margins surely there would be highly advertised competitors trying to get in on these massive profits.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#12

Post by Amezarak » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 9:31 AM UTC

quinndupont wrote: post #2

Seems to me that the real story here isn’t Amazon but the heartbreaking frequency of vehicular crashes. Always fun to pick on Amazon though.

According to the Buzzfeed investigation, Amazon set it up so as to not require a more stringent commercial driver’s license, and Amazon was exerting such pressure on their contracted startup delivery companies that the companies were telling their drivers not to wear seatbelts and the culture was to pee in bottles. There were even examples of dispatchers telling drivers to flee the scene of accidents to make sure they made their deliveries.

Stressing and driving untrained people that hard has a lot more with the sad frequency of vehicular delivery crashes. If Amazon used established companies with trained drivers instead like Fedex, USPS, and UPS, which take safety much more seriously, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#13

Post by ptah » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 9:46 AM UTC

gbersac wrote: post #10

ptah wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think 10X is conservative tbh

I doubt they can have such high margin while there is so much competition : https://www.g2.com/products/amazon-mechanical-turk/competito...

there is competition from a customer perspective, but not really from an "employee" perspective. the people working in these cannot unionise and effectively negotiate their wage EDIT: if anything these competitors make it worse by suppressing wages even further

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#14

Post by tomxor » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #5

quinndupont wrote: post #2

Seems to me that the real story here isn’t Amazon but the heartbreaking frequency of vehicular crashes. Always fun to pick on Amazon though.

The article pointed out -- at some length -- ways that the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. And for the coup de grâce, Amazon -- unlike Fedex, DHS, UPS, or the USPS -- worms…

> the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar.

This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis, I frequently witness them driving through zebra crossings and red lights while pedestrians are using them... taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians, after all they are potential customers.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#15

Post by cucumberfanatic » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 10:12 AM UTC

tomxor wrote: post #14

x0x0 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article pointed out -- at some length -- ways that the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. And for the coup de grâce, Amazon -- unlike Fedex, DHS, UPS, or the USPS -- worms…

> the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis…

> taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians

You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)!

Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing to a taxi company and see how that works out for you.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#16

Post by gshdg » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 10:21 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #5

quinndupont wrote: post #2

Seems to me that the real story here isn’t Amazon but the heartbreaking frequency of vehicular crashes. Always fun to pick on Amazon though.

The article pointed out -- at some length -- ways that the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. And for the coup de grâce, Amazon -- unlike Fedex, DHS, UPS, or the USPS -- worms…

Also poorly maintained vehicles

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#17

Post by Tade0 » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 10:30 AM UTC

cucumberfanatic wrote: post #15

tomxor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis…

> taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)! Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing…

Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly.

Are they though? I took a good few Ubers who had great ratings but were terrible drivers.

The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#18

Post by cucumberfanatic » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 10:31 AM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #17

cucumberfanatic wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)! Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing…

Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. Are they though? I took a good few Ubers who had great ratings but were terrible drivers. The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect.

> The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect.

That's the same for both Uber and taxi drivers.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#19

Post by Spooky23 » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 11:08 AM UTC

quinndupont wrote: post #2

Seems to me that the real story here isn’t Amazon but the heartbreaking frequency of vehicular crashes. Always fun to pick on Amazon though.

If you’re doing this argument, you should go the full HN and blame zoning.

Poor Amazon wouldn’t need drivers if only zoning rules allowed them to place warehouses anywhere. If silly regulations didn’t forbid Amazon from putting a container full of stuff in every driveway, rent free, countless lives would be saved.

Re: The Human Cost of Amazon’s Fast, Free Shipping

#20

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Fri, Sep 06, 2019, 11:37 AM UTC

cucumberfanatic wrote: post #15

tomxor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis…

> taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)! Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing…

No one is eating when while their vehicle is unoccupied.