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Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

sciencemag.org

201–210 of 263 posts

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#201
post #174

Apologies for being harsh, but this kind of thing is the phrenology of our time. I know it's utterly conventional to think this way about language in some circles that present themselves as doing legitimate science, but the view that you can calculate the amount of information in human speech, except in a super-technical sense that doesn't match any of the reporting on this study or the way people are interpreting it…

You spent 177 words or 1,068 characters disagreeing with the article, but not one refuting it.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I listen to a lot of podcasts and audiobooks while doing other things; walking, cleaning, cooking, traveling, playing games, etc. Every time I try speeding up, even just to 1.25x, I don't enjoy it as much, as it feels rushed and stressful. I think it could be interesting to learn to listen and read at extremely high speeds, but nothing more than interesting, and I'm even doubting the usefulness of it.

On the flip side, I listen to podcasts at 2x and now the hosts' voices sound weird when I hear them at 1x elsewhere.

Mummy, why is everyone in real life drunk?

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#206
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find any recordings of 800 WPM synths. Would it be possible for you to make one? I'm curious of what it sounds like.

I don't think it'd be legal for me to hand you an espeak recording, but it works fine at 800WPM. espeak -s 800 "Things to say."

Here's an online version, I bet it sounds similar as the original program: https://eeejay.github.io/espeak/emscripten/espeak.html

There is a range slider that maxes as 450, which is the maximum speed according to the manual.

I tried listening to a Wikipedia article at 450, I am so amazed you can comprehend that. Perhaps that's equivalent of me visually scanning the text instead of reading, however when I do that, I tend to focus on interesting parts for long stretches of time. With espeak, how do you focus? Can you pause it at will?

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#207
post #49
post #15

But, he says, instead of being limited by how quickly we can process information by listening, we’re likely limited by how quickly we can gather our thoughts. That’s because, he says, the average person can listen to audio recordings sped up to about 120%—and still have no problems with comprehension. Some years ago I worked on an accessibility project for an app and website designed for people with disabilities. One…

I've known a lot of people that push podcasts, videos, and audiobooks to extreme speed. I knew a guy who'd turn video speed up to 8x so he could binge watch a season of generic anime in an hour flat. I knew a girl who'd get through paperback romance novels by scanning each page diagonally, in 10 seconds each. And here in this thread we have a lot of people bragging along the same lines. I just don't get the point. If…

After doing speed reading exercises a few years ago I initially also started to use the techniques for novels, but that was a bad mistake in my opinion.

While I could get my comprehension percentage quite high with a bit of training, I lost all connection to the characters and story, stopped imagining the scenes and felt like the reading the book was a waste of time.

Novels should be read at a natural pace to give room to your imagination and dive into the story. You can still quickly scan over boring/repetitive filler text, but I did that without caring about WPM already.

With other things like textbooks / articles / reports cranking up your WPM and applying your attention more selectively by focusing on or re-reading critical parts is a very helpful skill though.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#208
Early on when Information Theory was emerging, there were attempts to measure the bandwidth of consciousness. They reckoned about 18 bits per second or less, which sounds very low.

Tor Norretranders book, The User Illusion, mentions some of the research:

W R Garner and Harold W Lake "The Amount of Information in Absolute Judgements" - Psychological Review 58 (1951) - they attempted to measure people's ability to distinguish stimuli (such as light and sound) in bits. Result: 2.2 to 3.2 bits per second.

W E Hick "On the Rate of Gain of Information" - Quarterly Journal of Experimental Psychology 4 (1952) - this experiment measured how much information a person could pass on if they acted as a link in a communication channel. That is, faced with a series of flashing lights, subjects had to press the right keys. Result: 5.5 bits per second.

Henry Quastler "Studies of Human Channel Capacity" - Information Theory, Proceedings of the Third London Symposium (1956). Measured how many bits of information are expressed by a pianist while pressing keys on a piano. Result: 25 bits per second.

J R Pierce "Symbols, Signals and Noise" (Harper 1961) - used experiments involving letters and symbols. Result: 44 bits per second.

Discussion of the research, Tor Norretranders book, and what the research may have missed here:

http://memebake.blogspot.com/2008/08/straw-dogs-and-bandwidt...

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#209
The constructed language Ithkuil is, among other things, designed to have a higher transmission rate. Here are documents and ideas about the upcoming new 2.0 language version:

http://www.ithkuil.net/new_morpho-phonology_v_0_8.pdf

http://www.ithkuil.net/phonotaxis_v_0_4.pdf

http://www.ithkuil.net/roots_v_0_1.pdf

http://www.ithkuil.net/VxCs_Affixes_v_0_2.pdf

http://www.ithkuil.net/script_presentation_0_2.pdf

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ithkuil/comments/bvk1t5/tnil_number...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Ithkuil/comments/29wzfq/interesting...

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#210

The constructed language Ithkuil is, among other things, designed to have a higher transmission rate. Here are documents and ideas about the upcoming new 2.0 language version: http://www.ithkuil.net/new_morpho-phonology_v_0_8.pdf http://www.ithkuil.net/phonotaxis_v_0_4.pdf http://www.ithkuil.net/roots_v_0_1.pdf http://www.ithkuil.net/VxCs_Affixes_v_0_2.pdf http://www.ithkuil.net/script_presentation_0_2.pdf https://ww…

If your language is complex enough (and it's my understanding that Ithkuil is[0]) that the emitter takes more time to translate thoughts into it, the transmission rate is not going to raise regardless of information density (remember rate is over time).

I guess if we consider non-real time communication, but in that case (e.g. in English, which is limited by the medium's rate) the reception rate is the main factor, which is probably not too far off the transmission rate.

I'd say Ithkuil is designed for information density and my guess is its actual max rate is pretty similar to the submission's 39bps.

[0] IIRC not even its creator is a fluent speaker.

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