Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second • Hacker News Board

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#101

Post by 8bitsrule » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:04 PM UTC

jumelles wrote: post #7

Being able to convey emotion with tone in speech likely adds a lot more "information".

So very true. Said in the right tone, "I don't care" can mean -many- things. Emotional intelligence is acquired (or not). 'Bit rate' means nada.

As well, the 'amount of information' conveyed depends on the environment, and the preparation of the speaker and the listener. Some speakers (not to mention any names) spew a lot of BS ( not information) to sort through.

I'd argue that, in a medical environment, the word 'sponge' conveys less information than the word 'ebola'.

For the prepared, the cascade of necessary reactions in the brain can take little or much time to process. Some authors/speakers (authoritative) can pack -a lot to think about- in a few words. Like 'Where is everybody?'

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#102

Post by lozf » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:05 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #30

dual_basis wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can watch YouTube content at 3x without issue. I did this without much intentional effort - I simply downloaded an extension which allows me to speed up the video in increments of 0.1x using a keyboard shortcut. Whenever it felt slow I would speed it up, and whenever it felt too fast I would slow it down. Without paying much attention to the actual numbers I had reached over 3x within a month or so.

Is there a trick to get it above 2x (which is the cap in the UI). It'd be nice when watching videos of congress.

Opening directly in `mpv` gives a wide range of speed control, has keyboard shortcuts for everything, and as an added bonus, skips ads by default.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#103

Post by ururi82jrjfrj » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:07 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #15

But, he says, instead of being limited by how quickly we can process information by listening, we’re likely limited by how quickly we can gather our thoughts. That’s because, he says, the average person can listen to audio recordings sped up to about 120%—and still have no problems with comprehension. Some years ago I worked on an accessibility project for an app and website designed for people with disabilities. One…

Seems reasonable: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/superpowers-for-t...

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#104

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:09 PM UTC

ilamont wrote: post #15

But, he says, instead of being limited by how quickly we can process information by listening, we’re likely limited by how quickly we can gather our thoughts. That’s because, he says, the average person can listen to audio recordings sped up to about 120%—and still have no problems with comprehension. Some years ago I worked on an accessibility project for an app and website designed for people with disabilities. One…

[deleted]

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#105

Post by bscphil » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:13 PM UTC

I took a peak at the paper and discovered the following: among the languages they studied, English was second only to French in the number of bits of information per second conveyed on average. (English also had significantly fewer syllables per second than French.)

Thus, if you're choosing a language to communicate in on the basis of how fast it is to get an idea across, English and French are likely your best choices! (Among languages in the survey.)

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#106

Post by godelski » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:14 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #91

knzhou wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've known a lot of people that push podcasts, videos, and audiobooks to extreme speed. I knew a guy who'd turn video speed up to 8x so he could binge watch a season of generic anime in an hour flat. I knew a girl who'd get through paperback romance novels by scanning each page diagonally, in 10 seconds each. And here in this thread we have a lot of people bragging along the same lines. I just don't get the point. If…

Exceedingly slow narration, particularly what's normal for audiobooks, is annoying to me because it's slower than I process words. It's like walking with someone whose pace is far slower than your natural gait -- it takes more energy and concentration to slow down. It's why slow-talkers are so annoying. This isn't "how fast can I go through this" but "what is a comfortable pace"? So I bump the speed up, though usuall…

I watch lectures online at 1.5-2x for a similar reason. At that speed I have to concentrate. Slower and it is easy for my mind to wander.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#107

Post by bane » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:16 PM UTC

I recall a moment when, as an adult, I thought it might be fun to watch some cartoons that were my favorite as a child. I actually ended up giving up fairly quickly because the rate of the speech in many cartoons is apparently geared to be very slow. I remember firing up the first episode of the classic Thundercats show and being really struck at how much slower the characters spoke than my memory of the show.

On the flip side, I found noted radio show host Diane Rehm to be virtually unlistenable her rate of speech is sooooo incredibly slow. Her guests sound like they are all at 2x speed compared to her.

I'm pretty sure that this number changes as we age and our processing faculties gear up and then down.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#108

Post by charwalker » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:18 PM UTC

SXX wrote: post #64

colechristensen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I'd also like to develop / wish was integrated into audible and the like is silence trimming. Some speakers leave outsized pauses in their narration which can be significantly shortened effectively increasing speed with less distortion. I have the opposite problem where I have trouble paying attention to an audiobook at 1x. I get bored in between words and my mind wanders making it very difficult to keep tr…

> One thing I'd also like to develop / wish was integrated into audible and the like is silence trimming. I don't really use audible, but if you looking for good audio player on Android here is one that can do this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.ph1b.audiob... https://github.com/PaulWoitaschek/Voice

Can you include the app name? I'm blocked from both links.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#109

Post by godelski » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

n1231231231234 wrote: post #75

This is really cool. I am working in a related area and I think most of us have assumed that on average, the information rate is 'about the same' for the languages across the world. So it's exciting to see that their results confirm this assumption. Two qualifying remarks. 1) The 'about the same' is important. Even in their data, there is still quite some variance. They found an average of 39bits, with a stdev of 5.…

Why did everyone assume it would be the same on average? This seems weird to me.

Also, can you explain more about how the information density was calculated? Anything at the bit level seems crazy small to me. Words convey a lot of information. They cause your brain to create images, sounds, emotions, smells, etc. I guess we're calling language a compression of that? But even still, bits seems small.

Re: Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

#110

Post by nickjj » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 11:21 PM UTC

ckosidows wrote: post #100

nickjj wrote: post #98

I think it also really comes down to what videos or audio you listen to. In other words, the person delivering the audio and its quality. I listen to most non-entertainment videos / podcasts at 1.5x and I would say about 80% of them are completely ok to comprehend from a "can I easily listen to this without struggling to figure out what they are saying at a language level". But as soon as I try 2x, that drops down to…

Where are you from if people think you don't have an accent, if you don't mind me asking?

Long Island, New York.

I'm not trying to plug my channel but here's my latest public video from the other week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq_khHWovl4

I do believe audio quality plays a -huge- role in this.

For comparison, here's the most recent Railscasts video from a few years ago by another screencast author: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urPi4qZJeOE

I can deal with him at 2x but it's mentally taxing because his audio has a metallic wispy sound at that speed and it makes his words sound blended together. I think he also talks slightly slower than me at 1.0x as well, so it's not just base talking speed. Does anyone else notice that metallic sound too?

Here's another sample of Joe Rogan and Bill Burr on a podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS1KWv0das8

Listening to them talk at 2x feels like a joy. They are talking a little slower since it's a casual conversation but the audio is crystal clear and both of them have very good word annunciation (not surprising since they are on stage talking for a living).