Rust in Large Organizations
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Rust in Large Organizations
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Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#2Super interesting read.
The geometric growth of deps problem seems like a natural consequence of having a good package manager. In languages like C/C++, libraries often include all their code - there are no transitive dependencies.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#3The build system issue isn't inherent to Rust or to large organizations. Even in a startup, we have a polyglot development with a separate build tool in addition to the language-specific build tool. We ended up doing much of the same things: use the language-specific build tool to generate artifacts which are then consumed by the normal build tool.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#4Here is some context for the event at which these notes were taken, and a summary writeup:
https://users.rust-lang.org/t/rust-in-large-organizations-me...
This was a meeting between a few employees of large organizations using Rust (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Mozilla) at RustConf two weeks ago to discuss the common needs of enterprise users and how to collaborate effectively on the language and ecosystem going forward.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#5The build system issue isn't inherent to Rust or to large organizations. Even in a startup, we have a polyglot development with a separate build tool in addition to the language-specific build tool. We ended up doing much of the same things: use the language-specific build tool to generate artifacts which are then consumed by the normal build tool.
A slight difference is that Rust really wants to be the top level compiler. More than a lot of languages, even C++, it really relies on link time optimization to get the perf you'd expect.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#6I tried to learn those languages, my IQ level can handle java/golang/python/c just fine, but c++ and rust is beyond my comfort zone for sure, for c++, getting familiar with it is OK, but getting good at it is hard, really hard, mastering it is impossible for me. similar can be said to rust as far as I can tell.
even python has some "tricks", try "x=256; y=256; x is y" and "x=257, y=257, x is y" under python, or 'x=[], y=[], x is y; x=y=[], x is y' you will know what I mean, you actually need know some internal designs to use python properly.
At the moment I feel golang has the right trade off for programmers, be it beginners or senior developers.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#7I tried to learn those languages, my IQ level can handle java/golang/python/c just fine, but c++ and rust is beyond my comfort zone for sure, for c++, getting familiar with it is OK, but getting good at it is hard, really hard, mastering it is impossible for me. similar can be said to rust as far as I can tell. even python has some "tricks", try "x=256; y=256; x is y" and "x=257, y=257, x is y" under python, or 'x=[]…
I don't think that's a great example for Python; that's just knowing what "is" is for. The fact that it works the same as == for small integers in CPython is an optimisation showing through, but only in a place where it doesn't really matter.
You still need to have a grasp on the difference between reference equality and value equality without getting into anything anyone would call tricks or implementation details (eg, after `x = []; y = []; x.append(1)`, how many elements does y have?).
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#8I'd really like to engage in a job or project that uses Rust.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#9It's interesting how many organizations had problems with build.rs. Other build systems like Make, scons, or autotools have the ability to run arbitrary things in any step in the process compared to Rust which has a clear separation.
There is a proposed RFC to reduce the need for build.rs scripts in many cases [1], will likely be merged within the next 2 weeks.
Re: Rust in Large Organizations
#10I tried to learn those languages, my IQ level can handle java/golang/python/c just fine, but c++ and rust is beyond my comfort zone for sure, for c++, getting familiar with it is OK, but getting good at it is hard, really hard, mastering it is impossible for me. similar can be said to rust as far as I can tell. even python has some "tricks", try "x=256; y=256; x is y" and "x=257, y=257, x is y" under python, or 'x=[]…
I don't think that's a great example for Python; that's just knowing what "is" is for. The fact that it works the same as == for small integers in CPython is an optimisation showing through, but only in a place where it doesn't really matter. You still need to have a grasp on the difference between reference equality and value equality without getting into anything anyone would call tricks or implementation details (…
x=x.append(1) and guess what, now x is "None", yes it makes perfect sense for those who coded python for a while, but it's a disaster for newcomers.
too many similar demos
by the way I actually like python and use it often, just saying it can surprise you when you start, not intuitive per se until you become good at it.