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In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

wired.co.uk

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Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#391

Post by RobertRoberts »

Ensorceled wrote: post #355
RobertRoberts wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying Mozilla does _not_ have social development projects? A specific comment on part of this thread seems to indicate it's part of their charter. (or something, not sure what to call it)

It is explicitly part of their charter, that's why claiming that they are spending donations on things like diversity is "misleading" are not correct.

I did a bit of digging, and I am starting to agree they are being open about where their money is going.

But I'd argue you don't know where the money is going. I just found that in 2017 income from Firefox development was syphoned off to pay from Mozilla Corporation to Mozzila Foundation to pay for various programs and re-donated to others.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#392

Post by martin_a »

Spivak wrote: post #356
martin_a wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are made up reasons. If you have a solid definition of what is needed and what not, this is no problem at all.

Except for every large non-profit charity that employs entire teams to navigating restricted funds. Not made up example: nobody wants their donation to go to marketing. It’s not very sexy. But (to a point) money spent on marketing has a non-zero return. Basically every charity pays for their marketing out of their general fund and it’s always strained because it feels like pure overhead but it actually fuels their gr…

See my reply from above. Just state that up to X% of the restricted funds are used for marketing purposes and I'm fine with that.

> For Mozilla their diversity campaigns are the same way. They’re banking on bootstrapping a large undervalued talent pool as a long-term growth strategy and social good.

I would prefer not to see tech companies trying to fix our society. We have seen numerous examples where this went really wrong and maybe we should stop that right now.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#393

Post by RobertRoberts »

jshowa3 wrote: post #362
RobertRoberts wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Mozilla's only social development is asking questions and "getting requirements"? And I entirely disagree that programming code /requires/ any social interaction at all. You can do it purely alone in a basement with no contact with anyone.

Yes, if you're making your own product. If you're not making your own product (ie. company development), then it's not purely a technical exercise. Even if you're making your own product, you at least want to get market data and/or customer feedback once you release it. Otherwise, what's the point of selling a product if your customers don't like it? And I'm not saying that gathering requirements is Mozilla's only so…

Do you feel their is a difference between asking people what they want in a browser and telling people how they should live their personal lives?

Because I think that is a core distinction many of the commenters are concerned about here.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#394

Post by jshowa3 »

martin_a wrote: post #389
jshowa3 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me, how is server dying, need immediate replacement "made up"? How is a flood disaster in organizational building "made up"? Sure, I made them up on a whim, but they're based on real scenarios that restricted funding may not cover.

Sorry if I was misunderstandable. What I mean is that those limitations are made up. You just have to clearly state what you want to do with the money and that will fix those problems. Obviously restricted funds are nothing that is set up in 5 minutes, but I would expect that somebody really thinks about that. And if you state that up to 10% of the restricted funds might also be used for any other projects of Mozilla…

According to 501c3 law, the funding must be restricted to whatever the donor suggests or rejected. I mean if you suggest adding every single condition to your donation, you're not really helping the organization at all.

Otherwise you'll have a cash cow project that finances everything else. While that might be nice for one side, the other side would love to know that their funds are used to improve the already good product.

It's a holistic endeavor. Improving the product includes getting it in the hands of a lot of people, making decisions during conflicting ideas, writing better code, etc.

Restricted funding only hampers this on the perceived notion that the organization is stupid and will waste it all. There's no indication Mozilla will do this.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#395

Post by jshowa3 »

martin_a wrote: post #392
Spivak wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for every large non-profit charity that employs entire teams to navigating restricted funds. Not made up example: nobody wants their donation to go to marketing. It’s not very sexy. But (to a point) money spent on marketing has a non-zero return. Basically every charity pays for their marketing out of their general fund and it’s always strained because it feels like pure overhead but it actually fuels their gr…

See my reply from above. Just state that up to X% of the restricted funds are used for marketing purposes and I'm fine with that. > For Mozilla their diversity campaigns are the same way. They’re banking on bootstrapping a large undervalued talent pool as a long-term growth strategy and social good. I would prefer not to see tech companies trying to fix our society. We have seen numerous examples where this went real…

I would prefer not to see tech companies trying to fix our society. We have seen numerous examples where this went really wrong and maybe we should stop that right now.

This is laughable. Nearly every single technological advancement affected society in some manner. Just because you have some narrow view of examples where they did something wrong, doesn't mean you should be militant in your view and try an weasel funding out of an organization that does 95% good. Much better than any private corporation in my opinion.

And restricted funding is based on donor request. You can't say restricted funds are used for X unless donor said for X.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#396

Post by jshowa3 »

notyourday wrote: post #378
jshowa3 wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me, how is server dying, need immediate replacement "made up"? How is a flood disaster in organizational building "made up"? Sure, I made them up on a whim, but they're based on real scenarios that restricted funding may not cover.

Not my monkey, not my circus. Here's a way to avoid having to deal with restrictions on the funds raised from people: become a regular company that sells a product.

Considering Mozilla created a browser designed to do its best to not track people, and private companies don't do this, I can't see your point other than being bad faith.

Yeah, have Mozilla become a private company, beholden to shareholders and profit. Look how that turned out for companies that supposedly coined the "Don't be evil" motto.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#397

Post by notyourday »

jshowa3 wrote: post #396
notyourday wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not my monkey, not my circus. Here's a way to avoid having to deal with restrictions on the funds raised from people: become a regular company that sells a product.

Considering Mozilla created a browser designed to do its best to not track people, and private companies don't do this, I can't see your point other than being bad faith. Yeah, have Mozilla become a private company, beholden to shareholders and profit. Look how that turned out for companies that supposedly coined the "Don't be evil" motto.

That was before. Now Mozilla is not even committed to ensuring that ad blockers work. Sort of like long time ago Google was "don't be evil" company that made web better.

Plus, there's nothing that prevents others from donating their money without restrictions for the "good of Mozilla"

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#398

Post by notyourday »

jshowa3 wrote: post #394
martin_a wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry if I was misunderstandable. What I mean is that those limitations are made up. You just have to clearly state what you want to do with the money and that will fix those problems. Obviously restricted funds are nothing that is set up in 5 minutes, but I would expect that somebody really thinks about that. And if you state that up to 10% of the restricted funds might also be used for any other projects of Mozilla…

According to 501c3 law, the funding must be restricted to whatever the donor suggests or rejected. I mean if you suggest adding every single condition to your donation, you're not really helping the organization at all. Otherwise you'll have a cash cow project that finances everything else. While that might be nice for one side, the other side would love to know that their funds are used to improve the already good p…

So? There's nothing that prevents people who think like you from donating to the Mozilla general funds.

People who do not think like you should be taught to donate to restricted funds.

Why make people who would like to support development of the privacy first browser support decision of Mozilla to lease class A office space in a slew of expensive cities?

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#399

Post by notyourday »

jshowa3 wrote: post #395
martin_a wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my reply from above. Just state that up to X% of the restricted funds are used for marketing purposes and I'm fine with that. > For Mozilla their diversity campaigns are the same way. They’re banking on bootstrapping a large undervalued talent pool as a long-term growth strategy and social good. I would prefer not to see tech companies trying to fix our society. We have seen numerous examples where this went real…

I would prefer not to see tech companies trying to fix our society. We have seen numerous examples where this went really wrong and maybe we should stop that right now. This is laughable. Nearly every single technological advancement affected society in some manner. Just because you have some narrow view of examples where they did something wrong, doesn't mean you should be militant in your view and try an weasel fun…

> And restricted funding is based on donor request. You can't say restricted funds are used for X unless donor said for X.

Exactly! Donor in question does not want his or her money to be spent on Mozilla fixing diversity. There's nothing that prevents Mozilla from courting Zuck or Musk or Gates or whoever else that according to their positions think diversity is more important than the ad blocking.

Re: In a swipe at Chrome, Firefox now blocks ad trackers by default

#400

Post by _-david-_ »

dblohm7 wrote: post #298
newscracker wrote: post #55

Those who want a world where Firefox has a higher market share and mind share, please consider doing the following: 1. Evangelize Firefox to people you know any chance you get and show them all the reasons why its better than Chrome (focus on privacy as an important point). Show them how great browsing can be with a few key extensions (like uBlock Origin, Containers, Privacy Possum, etc.). This does not imply that Mo…

Not that the donations are not going to a good cause (they are [1]), but donations do not go to funding Firefox development. [1] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/

This is pretty much the only reason I don't donate to Mozilla. As far as I can tell there is no way to only donate for Firefox development.
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