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Metaphysics and JavaScript

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Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#4

Post by nikolaplejic »

It might be worth pointing out that this presentation comes with speaker notes (keyboard shortcut: S, or click on the gear icon at the bottom and find the link). They contain much more content (and context) than the slides alone.

Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#5

Post by mythz »

nikolaplejic wrote: post #4

It might be worth pointing out that this presentation comes with speaker notes (keyboard shortcut: S, or click on the gear icon at the bottom and find the link). They contain much more content (and context) than the slides alone.

Definitely worthwhile, thanks. I had viewed this presentation before but didn't know about the Speaker notes.

Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#6

Post by ng12 »

I'm not sure I understand. Yes, there are some pitfalls to React Hooks (and, honestly, they're really slick but definitely require more cognitive overhead than React.Component) but he doesn't really describe how Svelte solves these problems. In fact, looking at the demo code it looks pretty similar to how I'd built it in React.

My trepidations concerning frameworks like Svelte come from things like this:

   ``
What does `bind:group` do? What kind of magic is going on behind the scenes to make this work? At least with React it's always easy to grok what is happening (it's all just JavaScript, after all). Of all the front-end frameworks React has the fewest magical invocations and that's one of the most important things I look for in a framework or library.

Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#7

Post by nemothekid »

ng12 wrote: post #6

I'm not sure I understand. Yes, there are some pitfalls to React Hooks (and, honestly, they're really slick but definitely require more cognitive overhead than React.Component) but he doesn't really describe how Svelte solves these problems. In fact, looking at the demo code it looks pretty similar to how I'd built it in React. My trepidations concerning frameworks like Svelte come from things like this: ` ` What doe…

You're missing his actual walkthrough of Svelte, that he likely did in the demo. I've seen Svelte enough times on HN that I'm vaguely familiar with it.

Svelte, to me, at a very high level, is "Angular 1, but fast" - which might be easier to develop for, but doesn't provide the same "rails" that React does (and why I prefer it).

At the end of the day, all the hang wringing about hooks and purity is about making it simple to reason about a program locally. I haven't used Svelte so I can't say for sure, but the problem Svelte (and that the Virtual DOM) solves is an issue I don't think I have.

In any case his presentation was interesting enough from a FP/Programming theory POV.

Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#8

Post by hitekker »

mythz wrote: post #5
nikolaplejic wrote: post #4

It might be worth pointing out that this presentation comes with speaker notes (keyboard shortcut: S, or click on the gear icon at the bottom and find the link). They contain much more content (and context) than the slides alone.

Definitely worthwhile, thanks. I had viewed this presentation before but didn't know about the Speaker notes.

Same here. Thank you for the tip, GP.

Re: Metaphysics and JavaScript

#9

Post by kjksf »

nemothekid wrote: post #7
ng12 wrote: post #6

I'm not sure I understand. Yes, there are some pitfalls to React Hooks (and, honestly, they're really slick but definitely require more cognitive overhead than React.Component) but he doesn't really describe how Svelte solves these problems. In fact, looking at the demo code it looks pretty similar to how I'd built it in React. My trepidations concerning frameworks like Svelte come from things like this: ` ` What doe…

You're missing his actual walkthrough of Svelte, that he likely did in the demo. I've seen Svelte enough times on HN that I'm vaguely familiar with it. Svelte, to me, at a very high level, is "Angular 1, but fast" - which might be easier to develop for, but doesn't provide the same "rails" that React does (and why I prefer it). At the end of the day, all the hang wringing about hooks and purity is about making it sim…

For what it's worth: to me Svelte is, for the lack of a better word, "better" React. It's another evolutionary step in the same direction.

I wouldn't compare it to Angular.

Svelte is both easier to use (productivity) and generates faster code.

To me React is 2 things: components (reusable pieces that combine state with rendering logic in JavaScript / HTML / CSS) and reactivity (rebuilding UI from state).

Virtual DOM is an implementation detail that makes rebuilding UI from state fast enough in React.

Svelte also provides components and reactivity but with less typing (for me, the programmer).

While I know some people complain about more magic, my experience is opposite: Svelte maps more intuitively to the final JavaScript / HTML / CSS than React.

And it has CSS that is scoped by default to the component which removes the need for CSS-in-JS solutions.

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