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Android 10

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Re: Android 10

#481

Post by kbenson »

Mindwipe wrote: post #460
kbenson wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RCS is a federated protocol. Any app could use it if the network providers supplied a service for it. Google is providing a Google server fallback for if they don't. There may not be a UK RCS market, but given it was just turned on a couple months ago and for a few countries, perhaps it's too soon to call it decided?

My point was specifically in response to Google's claim that RCS is a "gold" market for RCS where they have already completed the rollout. They haven't. They have the support of one carrier with roughly 20% market share, and about 3 - 5% of Android devices. There isn't really any reason to surmise that is going to improve, and Google's boasting here is very silly. RCS is a dead end product in every non-US territory,…

> They have the support of one carrier with roughly 20% market share, and about 3 - 5% of Android devices.

According to Google (in the articles I read and shared here), whether the network provider supports it is irrelevant because they are supplying their own server in those cases, so it should just work. If you're in that region I'm interested to hear what you experience is if you have access to an Android phone and test.

Re: Android 10

#482

Post by kbenson »

criddell wrote: post #471
kbenson wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because the spec started all the way back in 2008, and you could revise it yet again, even though almost nobody is currently supporting it, or you can get it out and improve the situation for many people, even though it's not perfect. I imagine pushing for an extension to support encryption might be a lot easier if there's actual uses to call for it. Given that Google has started rolling it out with a fallba…

> I imagine pushing for an extension to support encryption might be a lot easier if there's actual uses to call for it. That's letting Google off the hook. Nobody knows better about the level of surveillance users are under. Encryption should be feature #1. For them to roll out an unencrypted service borders on malpractice. Luckily for them, software engineers aren't licensed. > Google has started rolling it out with…

> Encryption should be feature #1.

Well, you're free to travel back in time to 2008 and propose it to the working group that was making the spec...

> If I could choose which back end I want to be on, I would choose Google's, especially if that meant messages would be end-to-end encrypted within that sphere.

I agree, but it appears the way the protocol is federated means that there isn't specifically one back end. Also, since it does some discovery with a "hidden" sms to the other end to ask if it supports RCS, I imagine end-to-end encryption might not be that hard to tack on...

Re: Android 10

#483

Post by kbenson »

shuckles wrote: post #479
kbenson wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because if I bought a new phone last year, why would I want to spend money to buy a new phone now that's worse than what I already had? Telling someone to buy an iPhone because of this is pretentious. Telling them to buy an iPhone that may be worse performance wise than their current phone is way worse.

It seems like in your original post, you were saying that iPhone was not a good value. Yet the A series chips consistently outperform Snapdragon by years, and software support for iPhone probably means a years old model has more official life than a latest Android. I don’t think the reply was suggesting you get a new phone specifically. They were responding to your claim that iPhone is on face not a good value.

No, I wasn't saying it's not a good value. I was saying it's a ridiculous thing to ask of someone that may have a completely serviceable phone that might even be brand new. It's like telling someone to buy a Mercedes or Volvo. It may be a very good product, but that doesn't mean there's not a lot of assumptions in any recommendation to buy one, especially if it doesn't consider the quality, cost or age of your current car other than "not a Mercedes or Volvo".

Re: Android 10

#484

Post by Liquid_Fire »

catbird wrote: post #309
Dunedan wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how 'swipe from the left' can be used as a universal back gesture. Isn't it the case that most apps use that gesture already to open a menu? That's also discussed in the blog post I linked. tl;dr: Only a small subset of users (3-7%) uses a swipe gesture to open these menus (all others use the hamburger menu) and these users have to adapt now to do different kinds of swipes for opening the menu an…

After reading your comment, I went through my most commonly used apps and found that they all have a hamburger button in the top left corner that brings up the same menu as a swipe from left gesture. Somehow I never noticed those buttons before, leaving me feeling a bit spooked. How is it that something I look at dozens of times a day could go unnoticed for so long?

I had the inverse reaction: I discovered that all these apps support swiping from the left. At least the hamburger menu is visible - there is nothing really advertising the swipe gesture.

Re: Android 10

#485

Post by headmelted »

sigmar wrote: post #134
headmelted wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it? I use Signal because I don't want Google reading my messages.

As it was in Gmail and Messages, 'Smart Reply' is done with on-device models, messages aren't sent to Google. Source: https://9to5google.com/2019/04/05/ml-kit-smart-reply/

And?

I don't want Google reading my Signal messages on their devices or mine.

Re: Android 10

#486

Post by headmelted »

izacus wrote: post #278
nod wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please explain what's happening here then, in terms of how Google is reading our Signal messages to provide "smart" replies?

Smart replies are provided on the OS side after notification is generated using on-device ML model. They show up on all apps that provide messaging.

This does ultimately mean Google is intercepting and reading them then (albeit on the device).

Re: Android 10

#487

Post by sigmar »

headmelted wrote: post #485
sigmar wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it was in Gmail and Messages, 'Smart Reply' is done with on-device models, messages aren't sent to Google. Source: https://9to5google.com/2019/04/05/ml-kit-smart-reply/

And? I don't want Google reading my Signal messages on their devices or mine.

Your OS is 'reading' your messages (whether you use smart reply or not)

Re: Android 10

#488

Post by ansible »

mrguyorama wrote: post #473
ansible wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. If you're not getting updates from the chip vendor, you're going to have a hard time moving to later version of Linux, for example. It would cost a lot of money to port new software to the platform, and then the question is... who's going to pay for it? If everyone still using a Nexus 5X chips in $50 USD to fund continued development, then maybe that could continue. But it is easier at some point to just…

The phone originally sold for $400. Is that really not enough money to fund software development for 4 years or more?

> The phone originally sold for $400. Is that really not enough money to fund software development for 4 years or more?

No, not really.

First comes the reality of retail pricing. The "leaving the factory door with everything amortized in" unit price of a $400 phone is likely around $250 or less. The rest of that is markup for the store, shipping, warranty returns, marketing, and a bunch else.

A good chuck of that $250 (if it is even that high), pays for the actual hardware, patent licenses, carrier testing, and a bunch of other stuff.

That doesn't leave much left to actually pay for development.

And since most consumers aren't thinking about operating system updates a couple years down the road, the lower selling price will generate more profits than long-term support will.

Re: Android 10

#489

Post by Phillips126 »

redwall_hp wrote: post #250
burtonator wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow... 20MB.. I thought my 5MB app was horrible!@

It is. This is just several more steps up the atrocity ladder. Web site weight has majorly outpaced the growth of the average internet connection speed, and we also live in a world where mobile usage is up and many people have usage caps. I pay per gigabyte with a prepaid plan for my phone, because I'm not paying $40/month for phone service when I can pay less than half that, so blindly clicking a web page and having…

I hear ya. I find the "unlimited data" plans are just far too expensive to justify paying for. My current carrier (Verizon[0]) offers 4(!) different "unlimited" plans starting at $70/mo and going up from there. My Wife and I only have 2GB/mo plans which itself is $35/mo. Our two cellphones have a higher bill than our entire household electric/gas bill and we have a modest sized house with central air/heating and lots of TVs/games/etc.

[0] https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/

Re: Android 10

#490

Post by leokennis »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #206

I recently bought a Nokia 2.2, which in in the Android One program. Two main reasons: a removable battery and OS updates for two years and security for 3. At this point, there's very little difference between the hardware of flagships and commodity, especially considering the real-world use of smartphones. I mean, is anyone compiling programs on these things or doing anything particularly intensive? Not really. So gi…

Of course one reason you’d want a faster processor is it will “race to idle” faster and increase your battery life (longer life with similar battery / equal life with smaller battery that’s charged quicker):

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/race-to-sleep

Of course there is an optimum between price, workload and battery life that will differ per person.

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