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Neutralizing Tear Gas

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Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#41

Post by petre »

idlewords wrote: post #23

The Hong Kong police raise a banner warning of "tear smoke" when they're about to fire, and this is a much less confusing name for the stuff than tear gas. A cartridge of something hot and smoking skitters at your feet. You can throw it back, or douse it with water, or immerse it in water, but you'll burn your hand if you don't have gloves on. The smoke is a powerful irritant that feels like someone blew pepper into…

Could one maybe use a hockey stick to throw it back at the police? Fire extinguisher foam to defuse it?

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#42

Post by owenmarshall »

petre wrote: post #41
idlewords wrote: post #23

The Hong Kong police raise a banner warning of "tear smoke" when they're about to fire, and this is a much less confusing name for the stuff than tear gas. A cartridge of something hot and smoking skitters at your feet. You can throw it back, or douse it with water, or immerse it in water, but you'll burn your hand if you don't have gloves on. The smoke is a powerful irritant that feels like someone blew pepper into…

Could one maybe use a hockey stick to throw it back at the police? Fire extinguisher foam to defuse it?

Protestors have thrown them back, but typically the police don protective goggles & masks before they deploy the gas so it may not be the most effective thing.

There was also a video going around of a protestor in HK placing a traffic cone over the canister and dousing it with water to defuse. It looked to do the trick.

Lots of protestors have the belief that a handkerchief soaked in vinegar will have some type of "neutralization action" against the gas when worn tightly around the face - watch protest videos and you'll see this in action. I have no idea if the vinegar has any actual effect on the chemical or if a wet barrier just keeps it from being easily inhaled.

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#43

Post by claudiawerner »

szemet wrote: post #24
goda90 wrote: post #3

I can't help but think that there could be an unfortunate inverse to JFK's "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." in this. Tyrants finding their nonlethal weapons not working might more quickly turn to using guns.

This strict split is also one of the central theme of Poppers "The Open Society And Its Enemies". "For we may distinguish two main types of government. The first type consists of governments of which we can get rid without bloodshed — for example, by way of general elections; that is to say, the social institutions provide means by which the rulers may be dismissed by the ruled, and the social traditions- ensure that…

Doesn't this presume that the structures which prop up the government are already an intrinsic good? Consider the frequently seen sentiment that no matter who is in office, it is the office itself that does not serve the people, the government is not for the people, and the foundations of the government work against the people and will continue to do so even if a ruler is dismissed and another brought in. To use a more crude example, a slave does not cease to be a slave just because he can vote out his old master - rather it is the institution of slavery that must change, not merely adding the ability to choose.

This is frequently found in political philosophy that goes well beyond Popper's liberal egalitarianism. It's very strange to see this in the context of a country which is ostensibly (but not actually) democratic, such as China.

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#44

Post by snag »

cf498 wrote: post #36
HeWhoLurksLate wrote: post #9

This is one of those things that might just be good to know for whatever reason in the future. Thanks for the post.

As no one else mentioned it, depending on which country you are in, you should never try to pick up a tear gas canister shot/thrown at you as you might confuse it with a flash bang in the heat of the moment. There is a long list of people in France who tried to throw back flash bang grenades and lost a hand as a result.

Tear gas grenades used in France are GLI-F4's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade) and not flash bangs. It actually contains more TNT than CS gas to get a blast effect (similar to flash bangs)

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#46

Post by vaylian »

PavlikPaja wrote: post #45

Fun fact: The Geneva convention forbids the use of tear gas at war.

I was wondering about exactly that when I read the article. The description of how it works is really gruesome. Many policemen themselves have probably no clue how it works.

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#47

Post by pedalpete »

nodesocket wrote: post #25

When I was down in Santiago Chile, I actually got tear tear gassed as it was deployed in huge amounts to break up protests. The police down in Chile don't mess around, at first signs of a protest they bring out the armored vehicles and just start firing away. It was brutal but also exciting besides the burning, coughing, and watered eyes for nearly an hour.

I was going to comment the same thing. I used to live across from the park in Providencia. Even on New Years, just to clear the streets, police tear-gassed the streets in Valpo.

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#48

Post by cf498 »

snag wrote: post #44
cf498 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As no one else mentioned it, depending on which country you are in, you should never try to pick up a tear gas canister shot/thrown at you as you might confuse it with a flash bang in the heat of the moment. There is a long list of people in France who tried to throw back flash bang grenades and lost a hand as a result.

Tear gas grenades used in France are GLI-F4's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GLI-F4_grenade ) and not flash bangs. It actually contains more TNT than CS gas to get a blast effect (similar to flash bangs)

Had to read up a bit, but either way i seem to have mixed something up. I did not know the French tear gas grenades also had TNT in them. But I read about such flashbang/teargas mixups before their introduction in 2011. The non french sources are a bit muddy, but Vital Michalon seems to have died at Superphénix due to a sock grenade damaging his lungs?

But nevertheless it seems i mixed up France with Switzerland here. Though I cant find the original source I had in mind, Guy Smallman had his leg severely injured in Geneva during the 2003 G8 summit by a shock grenade.

https://web.archive.org/web/20130507090403/http://www.nujadm...

Thanks for the heads up!

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#49

Post by idlewords »

petre wrote: post #41
idlewords wrote: post #23

The Hong Kong police raise a banner warning of "tear smoke" when they're about to fire, and this is a much less confusing name for the stuff than tear gas. A cartridge of something hot and smoking skitters at your feet. You can throw it back, or douse it with water, or immerse it in water, but you'll burn your hand if you don't have gloves on. The smoke is a powerful irritant that feels like someone blew pepper into…

Could one maybe use a hockey stick to throw it back at the police? Fire extinguisher foam to defuse it?

There's great photos out there of a Hong Konger using a tennis or badminton racket to hit it back.

I don't believe the foam would work because the burning bit has its own oxidizer. I've seen fire extinguishers used to create a smokescreen and to make floors slippery, but water is enough for the tear gas cartridges (and people here really seem to prefer to throw them back).

Re: Neutralizing Tear Gas

#50

Post by idlewords »

kweks wrote: post #37
WildGreenLeave wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sparked my interest here :-) Why have you experienced so many different riots? Are you a reporter, a protestor or something else?

Right place at the wrong time, mainly. The Istanbul protests were the exception, as I knew several people and wanted to see the situation personally. What is true is that Life Goes On. Even in Istanbul or Paris with the huge protests, if you're not in that specific part of town at that specific moment, you wouldn't even know it was happening. Hotels in HK are wildly cheap at the moment.. it's the time to visit a tour…

I agree that it's an excellent time to visit Hong Kong if you do not mind the risk of travel disruption (airport delays or trouble getting around on public transit). This is not a violent society even now, and travelers are not at risk in my opinion.
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