Earlier quoted context omitted.
The American Revolution produced a slave state. There might have been voting among landed gentry but it was not anything I'd call democracy in 2019
Is “landed gentry” redundant?
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Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
271–280 of 348 posts
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#272Earlier quoted context omitted.
It works in our countries too. Try to pass a terrible bill. Get rejected. Try again. Rejected. Again. Again. Again. They only have to get it through once, since laws are very rarely removed, only added.
It has bothered me for decades that this seems to be a 'bug' in the design of the US government system. ~500 people whose job is to create new laws. 9 people who can effectively remove them (SCOTUS), and who have a very limited schedule. Plus if they are ever too busy and pass on hearing a case because others are more pressing, that immediately cements the law into place and establishes it as having 'survived Supreme…
No different than tech debt at places where shipping code is more incentivized than cleaning up code.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#273Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you cannot vote for a different party that doesn’t share the values of the CCP, and can’t form one yourself, elections are meaningless rubber stamps.
You don't need parties to have elections, just like how elections within a single community or organization don't have political parties, just candidates and fractions (voters/executives with different opinions). As for the values of the CCP, consider them like the Constitution in the US or the values of the "founding fathers". People don't get to change those either in any direct democratic way (but through a slow,…
Of course you don’t need parties to hold elections, that’s not what I said. I said they become meaningless rubber stamps since all the different factions are curated by the party establishment to the best of their abilities making any challenge to the establishment at best painfully slow (as in people have to be replaced through death or expulsuon for any blockage to stop) and at worst impossible.
I’m not talking about changing the constitution or policy in a direct democratic way, changing them in a representative way through Western style democracy would be a vast improvement. Because the constitutions of Western governments still leave a lot of political room to manouver, such as taxation. In the US, stuff like that was left out of the constitution because the founding fathers knew they didn’t have all the answers, no one does. Especially not the CCP. Instead, things like basic human rights such as the right to not get locked up and brainwashed because of your religion is enshrined in the constitutions of Western style democracies because unlike taxation or government ownership of enterprises that is really important to make sure all individuals matter.
And yes, changing the constitution is very slow, but if you have a multitude of differences with the government and the majority population, you can still progress politically and change one thing about the constitution where you do find common ground if you’re a competent politician. That’s far faster, more efficient and meritocratic than having to share the vast majority of policy with just one arbitrary party leadership to even be elligeble to run.
All of these advantages are still present even with a two party system, but I prefer the multiparty, parliamentary system we have here in the Nordic countries.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#274Earlier quoted context omitted.
I disagree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnation_Revolution
That was an utter and complete failure in every sense of the word. And in any case the reasons behind it had nothing to do with a desire for democracy
> That was an utter and complete failure in every sense of the word.
No, if it was a failure the previous system and people would have remained in power. Though some did, there was an irrefutable change - whatever qualms one might have with the new regime.
> And in any case the reasons behind it had nothing to do with a desire for democracy
Each person has their reasons. The Group of Nine would certainly disagree with your claim.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#275Back to kidnapping people off the streets I guess. More friction but gets the job done.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#276Earlier quoted context omitted.
More people wanted HRC, though. That's how elections work. It doesn't mean the loser is unpopular or broadly disliked. It means there's another candidate voters like better (or dislike less).
Nope, they did not. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/11/democr... Even Warren agrees DNC was rigged against Sanders. https://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/04/politics/bernie-sanders-2... https://www.washingtonpost.com/gdpr-consent/?destination=%2f...
My eyes are rolling so hard right now.
Primaries/caucuses are managed at the state level, and are not controlled directly or indirectly by the DNC. "Bias" means nothing without action, and the claims of "cheating" are completely unfounded (and insulting to the countless thousands of party volunteers who run caucuses and serve as election judges).
Bernie lost by three million votes. Not because of cheating, but because more voters wanted HRC. Period.
edit: Bernie has been languishing at 12-18% or so in the polls since the 2020 race really got rolling. That's Bernie's real base. Losing 2-1 to a colorless apparatchik like Biden does not suggest a revolutionary groundswell for Bernie. Rather, it suggests that the success he had in 2016 was due to other factors. I'd argue that more than half his votes weren't pro-Bernie, but rather anti-Hillary, a symbol of defiance and frustration against her near-coronation by the DNC, without giving actual rank and file voters a say (basically, by discouraging other A-list candidates from running against her).
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#277Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#278I don't think Beijing anticipated or endorsed this. In context of Lams leaked resignation remarks yesterday, it looks like Lam is going rogue. She's setting herself up to be replaced via disobedience, because all signs pointed to Emergency Regulations Ordinance being invoked if protest continues. Her legacy is already ruined, but I think she doesn't have the stomach to double down that far. Beijing specifically instr…
This comment makes a lot of assumptions about what people are thinking and saying behind closed doors. Do you have deep sources in Beijing? Are you close friends with Carrie Lam? Or are you just making up what you think happened?
This news has been censored in the mainland press, so no one there is reacting to it either way.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#279Earlier quoted context omitted.
What practical consequences did Tiananmen Square have? You say it’s why they can’t just march into Hong Kong, but I don’t believe that. They can’t just march into Hong Kong because of the international condemnation that would ensue, and because it would wreck an economically valuable city. Both of those would remain true if Tiananmen Square had never happened. You say it’s a “major thorn” for them today; how? Domesti…
> What practical consequences did Tiananmen Square have? CCP is still grappling with it. Quote "As foundational as the crackdown at Tiananmen may have been to the CCP’s current strength, it remains largely invisible to the people. Despite claiming the moral high ground against what it calls a “counter-revolutionary” rebellion, the Party is still sensitive to the fact that its slaughter of students and laborers put a…
That quote is vague fluff, not “practical consequences.” What actual change was brought about by those protests? As far as I can see, there was none: no democratization or other political liberalization happened, just a bunch of dead or disappeared people.
Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill
#280Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is “landed gentry” redundant?
Nope, it's a pretty common term that springs from the fact that the gentry in question were such entirely due to their land holdings - there was no need to pursue outside wealth since their share of their tenant's earnings could support them entirely.
Ahh, thank you. :)