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I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

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Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#101

Post by ryandrake »

fuball63 wrote: post #21

One thing that the article doesn't touch on is how a passion for software craftsmanship can be completely undermined by the recklessness of business decisions. I love the experience of writing and using rock solid programs, but in the real world, there are deadlines to meet, flaky requirements, and tech debt. For people in it for the money, it doesn't affect them. For people that appreciated good software, it turns t…

This is the lesson I really learned the hard way and way too late. If you are passionate about software craftsmanship, making the code not just fast and correct, but beautiful, don't write software for someone else's company. When writing code for a company, you're a tradesman, not a craftsman. Schedule and customer acceptance is all you're going to be measured by. No customer cares if their water pipes are beautiful and the way they run is elegant and gives your basement a nice '20s art deco look. They just care whether they're leaking or not and can you do it by Thursday.

If you like to spend days getting the architecture just right, moving code around from one file to another because it just makes more sense there, running it through lint on the strictest settings and getting no errors, alphabetizing your #includes and lining up all your variable names, sanding and polishing away until that code is a beautiful diamond, then for your own sanity don't write software for a living!

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#102

Post by andai »

jdmoreira wrote: post #89

I agree with a lot of things in the article and I can relate to the author but this quote really threw me off >"some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more” (the author being female) Several times in my career I've found that other male developers (me being male) that I considered not even good made 50% more than me. Sometimes I found out that I made 50% more than other younger developers that I co…

The thing is, even if she is right about the reason she is underpaid, that way of thinking puts the situation out of her control, leading to suffering and stagnation. If you instead assume that you do have control over the situation, then that "positive bias" leads to finding ways to actually improve the situation.

In any case, it's always a mix of mutable and immutable factors. Here she has chosen (or automatically defaulted) to fixate on the one thing she cannot do anything about! From that perspective your only options are to suffer in silence, or to complain.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#103

Post by bluedevil2k »

martin_a wrote: post #100
bluedevil2k wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking back at your comment history, they're all harsh, negative comments usually with a massive hyperbole. Anything positive to add?

Maybe, but is it wrong after all? For example: Why are all those great engineers working for FAANG or other big tech companies although we know that they have some of the lowest morale standards when you see what they are building? It's not because there is some higher purpose in their work, but because it pays well. The people need this money to keep going on with their lives. There's a strange dependence going on:…

Silicon Valley is a place unlike anywhere else in the US, I think people on this site tend to not realize that sometimes.

Obamacare isn't hated in the US, the media plays that up. Look at this data showing the parts of Obamacare and it's favorable rating in the US...

https://www.kff.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/9267-Figure-2...

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#104

Post by bluedevil2k »

OrangeMango wrote: post #92
bluedevil2k wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a rather bleak outlook on life. And nonsense. If you get a nice job in Austin for $120k, you can buy a house in a nice neighborhood, let your wife stay at home with the 3 kids, own 2 cars, take vacations. And it's been that way for the last 20 years I've been here.

> Austin for $120k, you can buy a house in a nice neighborhood, let your wife stay at home with the 3 kids, own 2 cars I'm not that familiar with Austin, but a quick look at real estate listings show that four bedroom homes with two car garages are not commonly available for less than $400,000, unless you perhaps want to spend most of your non-working hours commuting.

You can live north of the city and find $300k houses easily and have a 20 min commute to the Domain or a 40 min commute to downtown.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#105

Post by elindbe2 »

IMO a lot of problems with our work culture come down to too many hours. If we cut down full-time to mean 20 hours a week, I think a lot of the suffering would disappear. Health conditions would be reduced, ennui from the meaninglessness of tasks wouldn't seem as stark, balancing work and life would be a breeze. It just seems so weird to me that employers are willing to pay me $X for 40-50 hours a week but not $X/2 for 20-25.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#106

Post by hsbaut76 »

Work culture in the western world is broken.

We face so many issues because when it comes down to it, humans spend most of their time in very cold, disconnected working environments that are designed to break your soul and turn you into a drone.

I think what should be remembered is that swdev is a high demand job, and you should have high demands and standards of yourself and your needs.

The author admits to hiding away her flaws as to not show weakness, this is the wrong approach. Admit your weaknesses, be honest with yourself, your colleagues and your boss. If they don't understand or reciprocate, tell them to go get fucked.

Become a freelancer or consultant.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#107

Post by viklove »

nkrisc wrote: post #22
deaps wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe her concerns are shared amongst a majority of her female peers - thus leading to women either not wanting to join the field or leaving shortly after entering it. I mean men and women are different. We tend to excel at different things, have different thought processes, process things differently, different strengths and weaknesses (generally, right? - there is obviously overlap). Maybe her complaints help expla…

> We tend to excel at different things, have different thought processes, process things differently, different strengths and weaknesses (generally, right? - there is obviously overlap). This could also be said of all individuals, sex aside. Either way, I don't buy it. Nurses tend to mostly be women and yet the job is far harder than any software development job. It's more grueling hours, physically demanding, and me…

I don't even see the word "hours" in the comment you're replying to... Got a bit of a chip on your shoulder?

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#108

Post by kakwa_ »

martin_a wrote: post #28

If she earns 20% less, she probably just negotiated not that good. Not everything is some structural problem.

Well... the pay gap between men and women is a well documented structural problem.

You see it both relatively (equal competence, seniority and position) and absolutely across the whole work force (women tend to have an harder time getting top positions).

The statistics may vary from country to country, but just as an example here in France, the overall gap is at ~25% while the gap even when considering equal positions and responsibilities is at ~12%.

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#109

Post by martin_a »

kakwa_ wrote: post #108
martin_a wrote: post #28

If she earns 20% less, she probably just negotiated not that good. Not everything is some structural problem.

Well... the pay gap between men and women is a well documented structural problem. You see it both relatively (equal competence, seniority and position) and absolutely across the whole work force (women tend to have an harder time getting top positions). The statistics may vary from country to country, but just as an example here in France, the overall gap is at ~25% while the gap even when considering equal position…

For Germany it's something like 22% with "uncleaned" data and somewhat like 6% (some statisticians even calculate it as low as 2%) for cleaned data. According to Wikipedia [0] the US seems to have something like 6-7%, too for cleaned data.

Based on that her 30% sound like real bad negotiation and not asking for a raise regularly. But the article lacks detail information on this. Also, nobody knows that, maybe she is just not very good at her job and did not get a raise for that reason.

She also only changed her job once since college, too. While her medical condition might make it harder to change jobs, I wonder how long this condition exists and whether this always was the reason not to look for a better paying job.

All in all: Lots of reasons why she earns not as much as her colleagues, but probably no structural reasons.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_pay_gap_in_the_United_S...

Re: I just don’t want to be a software developer anymore (2017)

#110

Post by zaphar »

username90 wrote: post #91
wolfgke wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does a manager deserve to be condemned if he lowballs a man, because he thinks he can get away with it? Yes, because paying very different salaries for a very similar position causes a lot a damage to the reputation of the company if it comes to light.

If you negotiated 20% higher starting salary then you earn 20% more for the same work than the person who didn't. I don't know of many companies where you can't negotiate for a 20% higher starting salary so I don't really think this would cause a large reputation hit.

The primary way you negotiate a higher salary at your current place of employment is to either go work someplace else or threaten to go work someplace else. Actually going to work somewhere else is the far more likely method for most people. Either way you are no longer working at the place where they didn't value your work enough.
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