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Google’s GDPR Workaround

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Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#111

Post by hobofan »

Iv wrote: post #90
rvz wrote: post #8

It's really funny to see that yesterday, I was branded as a 'privacy nut' after the release of Android 10 as I was concerned about the privacy issues that are in Android. Then the Go modules proxy issue around the Go Programming language that raised suspicions about tracking usage statistics around downloading modules turned on by default without any consent and now this. I think there are some folks at Google who ha…

"You know, that PATRIOT act really allows spying on everyone" "Come on that's just paranoia" Snowden leaks secret program that implements everything details in the patriot act. "WHO COULD HAVE SUSPECTED?"

I probably saw those movies at an age where I was too impressionable, but growing of with portrayals of US intelligence units like in Enemy of the State, I always assumed that they did spy on everyone (and didn't even think that this would be some absurd view, or that I was being clever with that thought).

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#112

Post by hexadec »

ntp85 wrote: post #26
hexadec wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very not legal, but I think the parent was saying these regulations are more onerous to small dev shops rather than Google and the fine for this will be minuscule. Hopefully companies will find paths to revenue that do not require selling out there users to this level, maybe by just having ad auctions without any identifying information at all.

From gdpr.eu: "The more serious infringements go against the very principles of the right to privacy and the right to be forgotten that are at the heart of the GDPR. These types of infringements could result in a fine of up to €20 million, or 4% of the firm’s worldwide annual revenue from the preceding financial year, whichever amount is higher." For Google that would be 4% of its worldwide annual revenue, I'd assume…

That is the worst case, no GDPR fines have been near there maximum yet.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#113

Post by Nextgrid »

peterwwillis wrote: post #79
docker_up wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The executives should face jail time. That would certainly light a fire under Google's ass to finally "do no evil".

Jail time? For telling companies what kinds of shoes you shop for on Amazon?

For stalking you. They may only use the info to tell others about shoes for now but imagine the damage if this info was misused in other ways.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#114

Post by zaarn »

ceejayoz wrote: post #83
cj wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious what the maximum fine for Google could be under GDPR. Google's 2018 revenue was $136.22 billion. GDPR allows for a maximum fine of 4% of global turnover. At a maximum 4%, GDPR could impose up to a $5.5 billion fine. I agree, getting something closer to the maximum might help the situation. Although ultimately, my bet is that Google is already baking the 4% revenue risk into their business model. If that…

They can assess that fine for each major incident, can't they?

Correct. The maximum is per incident, not per year or total or anything else. Per incident 5 billion $.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#115

Post by tsumnia »

intopieces wrote: post #93
hexadec wrote: post #5

This some great work on tracking down all of these measures to track users. I really hope we get to the point where dumb ads rules the web once more. Hopefully this results in more than a slap on the wrist, but I doubt it.

Why should ads rule the web at all? Surely the cleverest engineers to walk the planet can come up with a new way of making money that doesn’t involve psychological manipulation.

I think there are simply engineers that are fine with the current state of things. You mention specifically "come up with a new way of making money"; however, for extrinsically motivated people, why reinvent the wheel? Problem solving can mean thinking up a solution or implementing a solution.

In the same vein, there may be engineers that enjoy working on this type of problem - how to identify someone that is actively avoiding you. The current iteration of Do Not Track mentality only makes the problem more interesting by putting up restrictions.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#116

Post by kerng »

microtonal wrote: post #103
whatshisface wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really a point of view, or is it a carefully engineered sequence of words designed to program people with certain opinions? There are lots of ways to "program" people that bypass their rational mind, and creating a false sense of social consensus is one of them.

Also, I noticed that some submissions unfavorable to Google seem to be flagged heavily (at least, they were posted more recently and had more upvotes, than higher-ranking submissions). Of course, posting and flagging may not be intentional policy of Google, but also the work of individual Google employees.

I totally can confirm this!

It's gotten a little better over the years but still being critical of Google gets you downvoted and flagged quickly.

Also worth highlighting that many HN members work for Google, so they have less incentive to shine light on these issues, sometimes maybe even defend Google.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#117

Post by hobofan »

intopieces wrote: post #93
hexadec wrote: post #5

This some great work on tracking down all of these measures to track users. I really hope we get to the point where dumb ads rules the web once more. Hopefully this results in more than a slap on the wrist, but I doubt it.

Why should ads rule the web at all? Surely the cleverest engineers to walk the planet can come up with a new way of making money that doesn’t involve psychological manipulation.

> Surely the cleverest engineers to walk the planet can come up with a new way of making money that doesn’t involve psychological manipulation.

If they could, they would've already done so.

One of the things "the cleverest engineers to walk the planet" would probably need to do is to increase consumers willingness to pay for good content by a factor of ~10 for e.g. online newspapers with quality journalism to be profitable, which frankly sounds near-impossible.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#118

Post by sokoloff »

inlined wrote: post #102
mamon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's not about "income brackets", it is about profit margins which can vary a lot between industries. 4% of revenue is enough to bankrupt traditional business, like Wallmart with profit margins of 2,48%. Google is a low-cost business, with profit margin of 25%, so even the maximum GDPR fine is something they can just write off.

So just make the fine a portion of profit? Maybe a three layer system that takes into account flat euro rate, a percent of revenue, or a bigger percent of profit; whichever is highest.

Though I think the GDPR is bad law in some ways (chiefly in terms of the chilling effect on small operators), I think that allowing the cap on the fine to be revenue based (and specifically global revenue based) is nearly essential.

Otherwise, you get into accounting chicanery (or outright loss-making companies being able to operate with impunity while they grow).

There's nothing stopping the enforcement action to take into account the underlying profitability if something like a grocery store were to run afoul of GDPR.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#119

Post by paulcole »

NullPrefix wrote: post #49

>I was branded as a 'privacy nut' Companies do actually employ shills to go on forums and try to sway public opinion. They call them something like public advocates, doesn't change the idea though.

What's more likely: that Google's willing to risk being outed for employing shills or that there are people who actually hold the opposing viewpoint?

Personally I tend to think of most people on HN as privacy nuts. Honestly of all the problems in the world to get worked up over, online advertising is pretty low on my list. There's nothing I can do about Google/FB/whatever, so why even think about it.

If Google or whoever wants to pay me to keep posting, I'm listening.

Re: Google’s GDPR Workaround

#120

Post by docker_up »

peterwwillis wrote: post #79
docker_up wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The executives should face jail time. That would certainly light a fire under Google's ass to finally "do no evil".

Jail time? For telling companies what kinds of shoes you shop for on Amazon?

Yep. Privacy violations and leaks should be punished with fines and jail time. Period. End of sentence.

Just like execs have to personally sign for and are accountable for their financial statements, they should do the same thing with privacy. GDPR sets a very common leveling of the field so it's completely fair now.

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