Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans • Hacker News Board

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#131

Post by korch » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:23 AM UTC

No matter what they build, ultimately it's based on public key crypto methods. So this is all a moot point after mathematicians make a break through and smash public key encryption methods. Sure, that might not happen for a decade, who knows really. But I still wouldn't want to place my trust in a vast gov't controlled multibillion dollar single point of failure that controls all authentication in society.

But good luck with your totalitarian schemes Big Brother guys, the more you try, the more the free society grows and strengthens like kudzu.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#132

Post by dennisgorelik » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:33 AM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #120

motters wrote: post #52

If it waddles like a national ID system and quacks like a national ID system, then it's probably a national ID system. Here in the UK we are fortunate to have recently dumped plans for a national ID system. Americans should do the same.

What is the argument against a national ID system? Can someone enlighten me?

It's a move toward totalitarian system. But that's not the main argument against government to be involved in Internet identity business.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#133

Post by dennisgorelik » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:34 AM UTC

Government tends to be inefficient in Internet business. The Government would screw things up in multiple ways: too slow, too expensive, too much corruption, not flexible etc.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#134

Post by BlazingFrog » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:44 AM UTC

motters wrote: post #73

sliverstorm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to get (one) Cool. They've got the OK from me. It could turn out to be neat, and so long as it's optional I'm not worried.

The thing about schemes like this is that they remain optional until such time as the majority of the population have them, after which it becomes easy to convert the system to a mandatory one since minority groups can easily be sidelined. Or alternatively they become so popular that it becomes difficult to function as a modern citizen without one (I hope this doesn't apply with Facebook accounts in the next few year…

Spot on. When I relocated to the US from Europe, it was impossible for me to open a bank account, rent an apartment or get a cell phone without an SSN. When I explained that to people at the SS administration, they told me that an SSN can never be a requirement to obtain any kind of service. In reality, it's simply not true.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#135

Post by brown9-2 » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:53 AM UTC

dennisgorelik wrote: post #132

brown9-2 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the argument against a national ID system? Can someone enlighten me?

It's a move toward totalitarian system. But that's not the main argument against government to be involved in Internet identity business.

How does the national government issuing identification cards lead to totalitarianism?

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#136

Post by ck2 » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:53 AM UTC

Even if it is optional to start with, it's like every other government "security theater" nonsense and there will be mission-creep to make it mandatory sooner or later.

Absolutely no way this should be allowed to be enacted, in any form.

Government should simply enforce the existing spammer laws and ensure net neutrality.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#137

Post by seabee » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 4:19 AM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #94

jrockway wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is in rapid decline? Let me guess, because teenagers use Facebook, spell "you" as "u" and house prices are not increasing as quickly as 5 years ago?

Not quite. Both political parties represent corporate interests, not the publics. Our infrastructure has suffered as a result of this and too much profit goes not to producers of goods and services but to wall street and other special interests. We can agree to disagree on this, but this is the way I see it.

It's obvious enough that infrastructure has declined with the blackouts you guys have had over the last decade.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#138

Post by brc » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 4:22 AM UTC

rlpb wrote: post #72

We are going to end up with something sooner or later. The fact is that we want (and can) enter into contracts on the Internet. In order to enforce contracts we must have identities. Since the Government (specifically the judiciary) enforces contracts, this means that we must be entering into these contracts under Government-managed identities. Currently we acquire and prove this Government-managed identity using an…

The current system is full of waste and inefficiency, and the possibility of fraud.

As such people using it take great care and don't trust it.

This is actually a hidden benefit of the system.

If you introduce an ID that everyone 'trusts' implicitly (esp. relating to online commerce) then the scope for fraud widens greatly. You can assume the system will get corrupted because of the great benefits accruing to those who can breach it.

The vast majority of contracts entered don't need much; if it does go wrong, usually little damage is done. As the risk profile increases, then so does the amount of verification, purchasing a business requires reams of documentation, an iPhone cover shipped out of hong kong can stay anonymous.

As IT people, we all naturally love a world that fits into a relational model, one where all people have a unique ID. As citizens, however, we have to resist this because of the lopsided risk/reward profile for individuals. In cases if centralised ID, you gain a little but lose a lot.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#139

Post by sorbus » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 4:24 AM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #135

dennisgorelik wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a move toward totalitarian system. But that's not the main argument against government to be involved in Internet identity business.

How does the national government issuing identification cards lead to totalitarianism?

Well, if you have a national ID, it's a lot easier to require ID when taking public transit (especially if they have RFID tags: "wave your ID to activate the ticket kiosk!"). That is certainly a step towards, while not necessarily totalitarianism, the sort of police state which I doubt that anyone would want to live in.

The problem isn't that national IDs will cause totalitarianism; they won't. The problem is that they're a step in a direction which a lot of people dislike, towards a government which is monitoring everything we do.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#140

Post by brc » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 4:25 AM UTC

eitland wrote: post #93

RickRoll wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

The problem is NOT that people prefer religion over science. The problem is people prefer sitcoms over both religion and science.

And some science is just a new religion for those who don't like churches.