The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#181

Post by asdff » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 5:11 AM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #23

The problem with inheritance taxes, property taxes, etc. is that they erode the meaning of ownership and permanence. For example, if I as a parent want to save up and give up my immediate gratification from spending that money so my children have a head start or even a luxurious cushion, what’s wrong with that? That’s me spending my utility the way I want. With property taxes, ownership turns into renting - you never…

When you own something you benefit from public government so it makes perfect sense that you'd pay for that benefit.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#182

Post by asdff » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 5:12 AM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #14

Why is inequality a problem if everyone else’s quality of life is improving? Poverty is lower than ever and most adults in developed countries have a smartphone, an unimaginable luxury that not even the richest could have twenty years ago. Things are good.

Homeless people have smartphones, all must be well then.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#183

Post by asdff » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 5:13 AM UTC

bt848 wrote: post #28

throwawaysea wrote: post #14

Why is inequality a problem if everyone else’s quality of life is improving? Poverty is lower than ever and most adults in developed countries have a smartphone, an unimaginable luxury that not even the richest could have twenty years ago. Things are good.

In California's Bay Area there are people sleeping under bridges a few steps from houses that cost millions of dollars.

Not only the bay area, but all over the west coast.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#184

Post by ryacko » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 5:28 AM UTC

asdff wrote: post #179

capnprotonmail wrote: post #78

I watched an interesting interview with a billionaire a while ago, who said that after you reach a given net worth it actually becomes very hard (unless you're unlucky) to significantly diminish your wealth through consumption, and that in fact consuming more goods often just increases your net worth: Luxury cars, apartments, mansions, real estate, parks, yachts or resources like gold often appreciate in value with t…

Very few things in life are priced for billionaires. Millionaires, sure, but a lot of people forget that a billionaire is literally 1000 millionaires, or the equivalent wealth of 80,000 people at the poverty line. It's pretty hard for anyone to fathom that egregious level of personal wealth.

Millionaires buy products, billionaires buy society.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#185

Post by dv_dt » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 6:32 PM UTC

throwawaysea wrote: post #47

dv_dt wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globally quality of life is improving, locally the US is regressing to third world status among larger and larger areas. Financial measures somewhat cover up the increase in instability in people’s lives.

It is a gross exaggeration to claim that the US is regressing to third world status. See https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-living-standards... . Americans are better off today than ever before.

The UN report on poverty in the US is more informative to me.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/15/extreme-povert...

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#186

Post by mpwoz » Tue, Sep 03, 2019, 11:20 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #37

Scoundreller wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the idea of progressive property tax rates. Figure out the median property value, make the first 50% of that tax free. Then the next 50% is taxed at the previous rates. Then tax values above that enough to make up for it. Could apply the same idea to land value taxes too.

That "figure out the median property value" is the hard bit. The value is determined in a voluntary exchange, such as a sale, and results of sales of similar property serve only as approximations. Same problem is with the land value tax. It's like trying to buy / sell your property every time you do taxes. There is a known mechanism to limit attempts do show an excessively low value. Back in the day, the British Empi…

>>> Back in the day, the British Empire's customs reserved the right to immediately buy the entire freight of a merchant ship for the value declared at customs

Can you elaborate on this/help me out with what to google for? I've never thought of this but it's actually a brilliant idea - would love to read more about it!

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#187

Post by yesenadam » Wed, Sep 04, 2019, 10:22 AM UTC

tatersolid wrote: post #171

yesenadam wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>However, too much equality also makes society too static, because no one is incentivized to innovate anymore. Sorry if this is a naive question, but is that really true? What's the evidence for believing that, much less treating it as fact?

> Sorry if this is a naive question, but is that really true? What's the evidence for believing that, much less treating it as fact? The economic collapse of the Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact counties, Venezuela, North Korea. By allowing a free market invasion in their Communist utopia, the Chinese Communist Party long ago abandoned their core ideology in favor of “pragmatic authoritarianism.” They get to stay in power,…

So you see all those places as having "too much equality"? And that, particularly, caused lack of innovation which made them too static?

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#188

Post by tatersolid » Thu, Sep 05, 2019, 10:45 PM UTC

yesenadam wrote: post #187

tatersolid wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry if this is a naive question, but is that really true? What's the evidence for believing that, much less treating it as fact? The economic collapse of the Soviet Union, Warsaw Pact counties, Venezuela, North Korea. By allowing a free market invasion in their Communist utopia, the Chinese Communist Party long ago abandoned their core ideology in favor of “pragmatic authoritarianism.” They get to stay in power,…

So you see all those places as having "too much equality"? And that, particularly, caused lack of innovation which made them too static?

Yes. There was essentially zero upward economic mobility in those societies, except for the party elite. When only 0.001% of your society has any possibility of bettering their circumstances, innovation stagnates.

It is still true that most anybody can get rich in a capitalist economy if they’re some combination of smart, hard-working, or lucky. This causes lots of people to try.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#189

Post by dogcomplex » Mon, Sep 09, 2019, 8:52 PM UTC

khawkins wrote: post #98

nugget wrote: post #4

Implementation may be politically difficult, but the solution isn't rocket science: substantially raise the inheritance tax and abolish all trust loopholes.

The relatively high income of the most wealthy isn't the problem unless your primary motivation is spiteful envy of the wealthy. The real problems are that it's harder than it was in the past to maintain a middle class lifestyle. The necessities of such a lifestyle have only gone up in price: health insurance, college education, real estate/rent, and maintaining a vehicle. This causes debt to pile up and drives peopl…

I mean... it absolutely does. You put the money taxed from the rich into social programs to ease the stress and risk of the lower classes - or just give it directly to them as lower taxes. That could make a huge difference.

If you argue that insurance/college/rent etc would scale to accommodate the larger budgets the lower classes would suddenly have, then obviously some other legislation is needed there though.