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Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

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Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#81

Post by dantheman »

rlpb wrote: post #72

We are going to end up with something sooner or later. The fact is that we want (and can) enter into contracts on the Internet. In order to enforce contracts we must have identities. Since the Government (specifically the judiciary) enforces contracts, this means that we must be entering into these contracts under Government-managed identities. Currently we acquire and prove this Government-managed identity using an…

>>We are going to end up with something sooner or later.

I think this type of attitude really hurts in a democracy. Every year people push bad ideas, and we must fight back against them.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#82

Post by jrockway »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #80
jrockway wrote: post #55

I'll be getting one of these when hell freezes over. If that means starting my own Internet, then that's exactly what I'll do.

I would like to see more local (at the town level) shared networks. Something like cheap wi-fi base stations (really cheap!) that could link up a local area and have a good directory of what material people host to be shared, local bulletin boards, etc. I live in a rural area and several of my friends are going the self sufficient route and my wife and I are at least putting in enough solar panels to generate about 3…

The USA is in rapid decline? Let me guess, because teenagers use Facebook, spell "you" as "u" and house prices are not increasing as quickly as 5 years ago?

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#83

Post by chopsueyar »

sbov wrote: post #45
Alex3917 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We criticize China when it does something like this, but when America does it's all fine." I'm not saying we should build this, just that in an ideal society it would make sense because there are real benefits.

In an ideal society, where there is no fraud or stolen identities, what are the benefits in building this?

It will end terrorism and drug abuse.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#84

Post by rlpb »

dantheman wrote: post #81
rlpb wrote: post #72

We are going to end up with something sooner or later. The fact is that we want (and can) enter into contracts on the Internet. In order to enforce contracts we must have identities. Since the Government (specifically the judiciary) enforces contracts, this means that we must be entering into these contracts under Government-managed identities. Currently we acquire and prove this Government-managed identity using an…

>>We are going to end up with something sooner or later. I think this type of attitude really hurts in a democracy. Every year people push bad ideas, and we must fight back against them.

I'm saying that the principle is a good idea, makes sense and that's why it'll happen eventually. The problem is the implementation. I'm happy to fight bad ideas. Here in the UK we managed to fight off the first bad implementation they tried to push on us.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#85

Post by chopsueyar »

daveman692 wrote: post #14
thwarted wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really in the best interest of collecting taxes to defer authentication (and even authorization) to a third party such as Google, or even banks?

I interact with the IRS once a year having to remember a short PIN I created years ago and can't figure out how to change. My bank has a very strong knowledge of who I am partially via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer and because I login to it on a much more frequent basis. It isn't that my bank would change the role of the IRS, but I'd login to the IRS using a strong identity issued by my bank versus…

...or you could use the mail.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#86

Post by prodigal_erik »

forensic wrote: post #74
younata wrote: post #71

IANAL, but this is technically legal, so long as it's used ONLY for commerce, by means of the Interstate Commerce Clause of the US Constitution. After that, it becomes unconstitutional, far as I know. So, in other words, it's unconstitutional, because it won't be used only for commerce.

Constitution is meaningless these days. "Unconstitutional" is defined by the emotional whims and ideologies of judges.

The commerce clause in particular has been used to justify most anything, including laws around production of your own goods because that can function as an alternative to interstate commerce.

But strict constructionism isn't an answer either. We shouldn't only have a right to bear 18th century arms, or let computer files be searched without a warrant merely because they aren't on paper. It's always going to be subjective, applying the law to questions that didn't even exist back when it was written. We have to do it, but we have to be more careful about it than we have.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#87

Post by RickRoll »

jrockway wrote: post #82
mark_l_watson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to see more local (at the town level) shared networks. Something like cheap wi-fi base stations (really cheap!) that could link up a local area and have a good directory of what material people host to be shared, local bulletin boards, etc. I live in a rural area and several of my friends are going the self sufficient route and my wife and I are at least putting in enough solar panels to generate about 3…

The USA is in rapid decline? Let me guess, because teenagers use Facebook, spell "you" as "u" and house prices are not increasing as quickly as 5 years ago?

How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#88

Post by Groxx »

In a blue block on page 18 of http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/ns_tic.pdf :

>Envision It!

An individual learns of a new and more secure way to access online services using a strong credential provided by a trustworthy service provider.

Running this past my parents was met with a blank stare, followed by "what?". And they're significantly better about their online habits than most people, especially the ones they're targeting with a system like this. Anyone interested in identity online already has several means of proving they are who they say they are, and can generate X.509 certificates to provide ridiculous-quality proof for individual transactions.

While I fully expect something along these lines to exist eventually, I'm honestly scared by the sunshine-and-ponies descriptions in that document. They're also making enormous claims of universal interoperability that reek to me of XML/SOAP/etc evangelization - it never works that well.

(Link thanks to trotsky: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2086135 )

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#89

Post by RickRoll »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #48
sliverstorm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have to get (one) Cool. They've got the OK from me. It could turn out to be neat, and so long as it's optional I'm not worried.

so long as it's optional I'm not worried. I've got a bridge to sell you, too. Social Security Numbers, we were promised, would not be used as personal identifiers. See, e.g., http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C02EFD71039F... FOR many years, Social Security cards carried an admonition that they were to be used "for Social Security and tax purposes -- not for identification." You've got my personal guaran…

That's pretty obvious. Just in a few month government and every established corp will require those for it's online services. Online banking, paypal&co, all app stores, gaming, taxes, healtcare, insurance ...

Re: Obama administration moves forward with unique Internet ID for all Americans

#90

Post by anamax »

RickRoll wrote: post #87
jrockway wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The USA is in rapid decline? Let me guess, because teenagers use Facebook, spell "you" as "u" and house prices are not increasing as quickly as 5 years ago?

How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

> How about because ppl prefer religion over science. And security over freedom. Federal government getting more corrupt and more powerful with each year.

When do you think that each of those became true?

Or is it that they've finally crossed a tipping point?

I agree that they're all true, but they've been true since before 1776. And, as bad as the US is on an absolute scale, I'm having trouble finding some place better. Suggestions?

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