As a side note just want to point out that I had Google Maps route us thru side streets marked with "No Thru Traffic" in a newer neighborhood last week in Myrtle Beach SC area to save 1 min.
This was the first time i encountered this case.
Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
221–230 of 311 posts
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
"when the roads are mostly paid for by the cost of the London Underground" Taxes on fuel used in motor vehicles (duties and VAT) are something like 30bn GBP/year in the UK. London has about 1/6th of the UK's population, so let's assume 5bn/year comes from London. That's 5x the annual operating profit of London Underground[0]. Government income and expenditure is fungible, so it's hard to determine precisely whether X…
For reference, from the 2019/20 TFL Budget, direct operating surplus' are: Streets -£167m Buses: -£722m Rail: -£49m Underground: £823m Elizabeth Line: -£267m Other: £9m Professional Services: -£560m Property: £69m Media: £145m [0] http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-budget-2019-20.pdf
[deleted]
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#223Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…
"when the roads are mostly paid for by the cost of the London Underground" Taxes on fuel used in motor vehicles (duties and VAT) are something like 30bn GBP/year in the UK. London has about 1/6th of the UK's population, so let's assume 5bn/year comes from London. That's 5x the annual operating profit of London Underground[0]. Government income and expenditure is fungible, so it's hard to determine precisely whether X…
"London has about 1/6th of the UK's population, so let's assume 5bn/year comes from London" isn't a good assumption - very few people drive/own cars in London.
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
And to what end? I’m of the firm belief that the good done by Waze far outweighs the cost to the NIMBYs. In LA we have a traffic crisis. Sorry but your government built and tax funded residential street is just as much mine to use as it is yours. I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners. The city should not be doing what your suggesting until they’ve solved t…
Residential streets are not designed for heavy through traffic. It comes back to “why we can’t have nice things”. Abuse. Many systems work when they are not abused but break down when they are abused.
> Residential streets are not designed for heavy through traffic.
One could argue that every street is designed for the amount of traffic that it is able to support- that is, the one that keeps the vehicles circulating at normal speed on that road. If the main road is congested, then it means that that road is not designed for that level of traffic. The Waze algorithm is fine until it moves the congestion to a narrower road.
In theory, a well designed algorithm should direct to secondary and residential roads only the amount of traffic that doesn't congest them, not one car more.
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#225It’s disappointing to see LADOT neglecting to use a road management tool already at their disposal to stop Waze’s abuse of their residential zones: No Thru Traffic. Posting NTT signs at entry points into residential neighborhoods and specifying even as little as a $5 fine would make entry for thru routing unlawful, stopping Waze. Whether or not the city enforces these signs would be irrelevant, as long as the traffic…
And to what end? I’m of the firm belief that the good done by Waze far outweighs the cost to the NIMBYs. In LA we have a traffic crisis. Sorry but your government built and tax funded residential street is just as much mine to use as it is yours. I won’t speed through it but I sure as hell have a right to use it as much as the local home owners. The city should not be doing what your suggesting until they’ve solved t…
That attitude is similar to a rationale for public vandalism. It's my street! Why shouldn't I turn over the trash cans and spraypaint on the street signs if I want to!
It does actual damage to the infrastructure, to misuse it in the ways being discussed. Its not just a matter of "I prefer a quiet neighborhood".
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m 36 and have lived in a mix of rural and urban areas of America and I never learned to drive and have never driven a car. Just want to make the point that not driving is really an option, just one that most people look for a way to avoid. It’s all a matter of priorities and as much as most people say they hate driving/traffic, very few actually do anything about it.
At some level that's true. But it's also true it significantly constrains your life choices. I've had one job in my life that I could maybe have reasonably held without being able to drive. (Business travel would still have been somewhat of an issue.) And my entire personal lifestyle would have to have been totally different. Also, a lot of people just aren't in a position to realistically say "no" to any job that in…
I think it's a little ridiculous to say "I would rather not have to drive" and then make 0 life choices to reduce the reliance on driving, which is exactly what most people do.
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
"when the roads are mostly paid for by the cost of the London Underground" Taxes on fuel used in motor vehicles (duties and VAT) are something like 30bn GBP/year in the UK. London has about 1/6th of the UK's population, so let's assume 5bn/year comes from London. That's 5x the annual operating profit of London Underground[0]. Government income and expenditure is fungible, so it's hard to determine precisely whether X…
For reference, from the 2019/20 TFL Budget, direct operating surplus' are: Streets -£167m Buses: -£722m Rail: -£49m Underground: £823m Elizabeth Line: -£267m Other: £9m Professional Services: -£560m Property: £69m Media: £145m [0] http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-budget-2019-20.pdf
[deleted]
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
Residential streets are not designed for heavy through traffic. It comes back to “why we can’t have nice things”. Abuse. Many systems work when they are not abused but break down when they are abused.
> Residential streets are not designed for heavy through traffic. One could argue that every street is designed for the amount of traffic that it is able to support- that is, the one that keeps the vehicles circulating at normal speed on that road. If the main road is congested, then it means that that road is not designed for that level of traffic. The Waze algorithm is fine until it moves the congestion to a narrow…
Isn't that what Waze does? It recommends uncongested streets.
And designed for isn't just about width and capacity. Its about robustness. There are many ways to build a road. Residential streets are built with less underlayment, cheaper surfaces. Because they will last for decades with low traffic. Burden them, and they'll collapse under the load.
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
"when the roads are mostly paid for by the cost of the London Underground" Taxes on fuel used in motor vehicles (duties and VAT) are something like 30bn GBP/year in the UK. London has about 1/6th of the UK's population, so let's assume 5bn/year comes from London. That's 5x the annual operating profit of London Underground[0]. Government income and expenditure is fungible, so it's hard to determine precisely whether X…
For reference, from the 2019/20 TFL Budget, direct operating surplus' are: Streets -£167m Buses: -£722m Rail: -£49m Underground: £823m Elizabeth Line: -£267m Other: £9m Professional Services: -£560m Property: £69m Media: £145m [0] http://content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-budget-2019-20.pdf
[deleted]
Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
The police would not be required to add resources to enforce these laws. But without enforcement the signs would make very little difference to LA drivers.
If drivers are not routed into residential areas by Waze as there are no thru routes for Waze to use, then they will be on their own to seek out and find ways to avoid highways and risk police citing them for taking residential zone shortcuts in the process. It won’t stop every driver, but it will curb the majority of them from ever finding or using residential zones as a bypass.
my humble guess is that the genie is out of the bottle: the vast majority of these LA drivers are daily commuters. now that these drivers are used to taking these routes, most of these residential neighborhoods will remain saturated permanently. removing the routes from Waze won't relieve much traffic pressure.