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Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

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Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#161

Post by slfnflctd »

thinkingemote wrote: post #112
tschwimmer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read (sorry can't find cite) that Waze and Google maps run roughly the same routing algorithm now, but Waze is hyper-optimized for time whereas Google maps is optimized for some nebulous quality akin to "fastest reasonable route" where unreasonable factors are things like using small roads, exiting and entering the high a bunch, extra turns, etc. So Waze probably is faster by a bit, but not a whole ton. In my…

I've noticed Waze optimizing for quickness. Not fastest, not shortest, not most direct but the route which makes you feel like you are getting there quicker. Often longer stretches with no traffic or junctions for example. It's as if users main priority is not to be held up. Users don't care if the journey is two minutes longer or a few pence more expensive, they just don't want to be feeling they are making no progr…

> It's as if users main priority is not to be held up

I believe this to be a very real and widespread emotional phenomenon. Not only have I observed it in countless other drivers, even as a quite experienced driver myself, I still feel it on a regular basis. Sitting at a stoplight for too long sometimes just makes me irrationally angry, and I will often add a couple minutes to my commute to avoid the experience. I know it's stupid and am trying to change the behavior, but it's difficult.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#162

Post by devit »

The obvious solutions seem to be either:

1. Add enough speedbumps, unsynchronized traffic lights or even unnecessary timed barriers to make the route slow enough that it's no longer optimal

2. Add cameras that fine anyone who doesn't have a permit to pass, which would be given to residents for free and anyone who pays a sufficiently high price

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#163

Post by michaelt »

stordoff wrote: post #124
gibolt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Palo Alto has quite a few as well. Some are just marked with signs, many have physical barriers allowing only bikes and large trash collection vehicles to easily pass.

Is there an example of these? I'm having a hard time picturing how a barrier can allow bikes and large traffic to pass whilst blocking other traffic.

There are barriers that restrict traffic based on dimensions - such as the 'bus trap' [1] that only allows wide vehicles, and the 'sump buster' [2] that only allows high-ground-clearance vehicles through.

Of course, these have the disadvantage that (a) they damage the cars of confused motorists [6] (b) cars stuck in traps obstruct busses anyway[5], and (c) large SUVs and pick-up trucks can drive over them anyway [4].

Another option is a powered rising bollard [3] or barrier together with some mechanism (tag, ANPR, keypad) for recognising authorised vehicles. Which avoids a lot of those weaknesses - at the cost of power and maintenance.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_trap [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sump_buster [3] https://goo.gl/maps/epSrQ2641m6ccf6cA [4] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-22352... [5] https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manches... [6] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-22/car-blocks-o-bahn-for...

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#164

Post by devit »

intopieces wrote: post #18
someguydave wrote: post #11

If the government wants to be the big daddy of traffic control then it should also build sufficient lanes to keep the roads moving.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Am I the only one that finds that using that theory to justify not adding capacity is utterly idiotic?

If you add capacity and it ends up being all used up, it just means you didn't add enough and should add even more if possible!

Kind of like saying that in a famine it's useless to provide more food because it's going to be eaten all up anyway since some people are no longer dying of famine...

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#165

Post by [deleted] »

iClaudiusX wrote: post #138
r00fus wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm at the point where I check Google Maps, then Apple maps (to confirm Apple maps isn't sending me to the wrong place) then close Google maps - Gmaps rerouting can be horrible, and is opt-out which can be tough to notice sometimes. I'll stick to arterial roads, thankyouverymuch, and take my chances. Once in France it sent us on a dirt road - the car with my other family got there 10m faster by sticking to the autoro…

The opt-out for rerouting is a truly awful design choice. One time I was driving up through NYC during a heavy downpour where visibility was only a few car-lengths ahead. Traffic had slowed to about 30 mph on the NJTP and most people thankfully had their hazard flashers on. Then Google Maps decides to distract me and pile on the anxiety with multiple "press no in the next 10 seconds or else!" re-routing prompts to sa…

[deleted]

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#166

Post by garblegarble »

krn wrote: post #114
Steve44 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. I occasionally use Google Maps for navigation in the car and it even highlights traffic stationary at traffic lights and temporary road works as I’m approaching. This level or real time detail really amazed me. I’ve not spent any time looking onto how they…

> Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. But does Google Maps use real time traffic data to calculate the most optimal route in the same way as Waze does? As I understand, that's the main difference between the two.

>But does Google Maps use real time traffic data to calculate the most optimal route in the same way as Waze does?

Anecdotally in the UK I see Google Maps routing based on live traffic data. I also often get a reassurance notification "you are on the fastest route despite traffic" (and it distinguishes between "traffic" and "usual traffic"). Occasionally I'll also get a recommendation pushed to switch to another route which is faster

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#167

Post by dsfyu404ed »

geofft wrote: post #45

I feel like I must be missing something because the following potential solutions seem obvious to me: - Mark a street as "No thru traffic," or charge tolls (via video camera) to vehicles not registered in the neighborhood and not stopping on the street. - Suspend the driver's license of anyone using Waze, and use that as negotiating leverage with Waze to give edit access to city planners. What's preventing local/stat…

>What's preventing local/state government from doing so?

The fact that actions have consequences and the consequences for those actions fall somewhere on the spectrum between needing to find a new job after the next election cycle and getting tarred and feathered.

We live in a democracy. The people get what they want even if it's not what the "experts" like and/or non-optimal. People don't to deal with draconian state micromanagement of their route choice.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#168

Post by Nannooskeeska »

krn wrote: post #114
Steve44 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. I occasionally use Google Maps for navigation in the car and it even highlights traffic stationary at traffic lights and temporary road works as I’m approaching. This level or real time detail really amazed me. I’ve not spent any time looking onto how they…

> Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. But does Google Maps use real time traffic data to calculate the most optimal route in the same way as Waze does? As I understand, that's the main difference between the two.

Anecdotal, but there have been several cases where I've been using Google Maps and it pops up a message saying that it found a faster route. All of these cases have been because of accidents or extreme traffic, and all have been on the same route (94 East from Eau Claire, WI to Madison, WI). As far as I know, Google Maps doesn't route traffic through side streets to save seconds like Waze does - it seems to re-route you when there are major delays.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#169

Post by dsfyu404ed »

devit wrote: post #164
intopieces wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand

Am I the only one that finds that using that theory to justify not adding capacity is utterly idiotic? If you add capacity and it ends up being all used up, it just means you didn't add enough and should add even more if possible! Kind of like saying that in a famine it's useless to provide more food because it's going to be eaten all up anyway since some people are no longer dying of famine...

There's definitely a balance to be struck (you can't just build lane after lane after lane and expect linear improvement) but yeah, not adding capacity because the capacity will be used is just asinine. It's just something about personally owned vehicles that makes people dumb. Most of those same people wouldn't complain about people using the new capacity if the discussion was about extending bus routes or making subways run more frequently.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#170

Post by human20190310 »

kenned3 wrote: post #159
orthoxerox wrote: post #147

> These thousands of homeowners and renters have arguably been injured by Waze’s and Google’s successful privatization of formerly public streets. That's a... very creative interpetation of what public and private mean. If you don't want your side street to be driven on at 30 mph, then you can't drive on it at 30 mph either. Traffic calming measures are a thing. Make it even more winding, add road bumps, bottlenecks.…

These "NIMBY" people always make me laught. if you dont want to have a ton of traffic dont buy a house on a major road. There is a street on the subdivision i live in with the same issue. it is the main entry point to the subdivision. people bought houses there, then fought the city for years over traffic? they put up stop signs, speed bumps, etc. they wanted the lower house prices associated with living on main road…

The issue is that traffic apps turned non-main roads into main roads, not that people bought on main roads then tried to block them.

NIMBYism can be a problem, but it's still important to characterize the issues at hand accurately.

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