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Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

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Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#111

Post by neka »

simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

Waze doesn't seem to allow you to specify whether you're a trade vehicle or not so it keeps routing trade vehicles into Regents (and the other Royal) Park which they are prohibited from and liable to be fined.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#112

Post by thinkingemote »

tschwimmer wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #5

In LA are these shortcuts worth it? I was surprised to find with Google maps more often than not it suggests to just take that busy highway that is crawling alone because ... it really is faster. I've tried to defy google maps ... rarely do I win. Granted google maps is wrong at times. During snowstorms it loves to send me down off streets that haven't yet been plowed or ... worse random county roads you do not want…

I once read (sorry can't find cite) that Waze and Google maps run roughly the same routing algorithm now, but Waze is hyper-optimized for time whereas Google maps is optimized for some nebulous quality akin to "fastest reasonable route" where unreasonable factors are things like using small roads, exiting and entering the high a bunch, extra turns, etc. So Waze probably is faster by a bit, but not a whole ton. In my…

I've noticed Waze optimizing for quickness. Not fastest, not shortest, not most direct but the route which makes you feel like you are getting there quicker. Often longer stretches with no traffic or junctions for example.

It's as if users main priority is not to be held up. Users don't care if the journey is two minutes longer or a few pence more expensive, they just don't want to be feeling they are making no progress.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#113

Post by Steve44 »

simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data.

Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. I occasionally use Google Maps for navigation in the car and it even highlights traffic stationary at traffic lights and temporary road works as I’m approaching.

This level or real time detail really amazed me. I’ve not spent any time looking onto how they do it but assume they are continually tracking everyone with a phone, or at least running Google Maps Navigation, and using their real time location and speed.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#114

Post by krn »

Steve44 wrote: post #113
simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering. I occasionally use Google Maps for navigation in the car and it even highlights traffic stationary at traffic lights and temporary road works as I’m approaching. This level or real time detail really amazed me. I’ve not spent any time looking onto how they…

> Google Maps has real time traffic data and the accuracy is staggering.

But does Google Maps use real time traffic data to calculate the most optimal route in the same way as Waze does? As I understand, that's the main difference between the two.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#115

Post by sails »

simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

Slight Tangent: I've got a feeling that private vehicles in Zone 1 (and 2...) benefit a tiny percentage of the population, and should be the next target for reducing inner city congestion (implementation perhaps tricky).

Is this concept something you've come across in your work/field?

If not, any ideas for what is next? I hope to see:

1. Car free days over weekends in high streets.

2. Entire high streets converted to pedestrian, bus & bike only.

3. A move to a more bike/bus friendly city, see Utrecht [1]

[1] Utrecht: Planning for People & Bikes, Not for Cars https://vimeo.com/344373585

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#116

Post by pkamb »

geofft wrote: post #56
chrisseaton wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s not clear to me why the various impacted cities don’t choose to ban through traffic Can you physically turn the streets into cul-de-sacs? Where I live a lot of domestic streets are cul-de-sacs presumably to prevent too many people driving past.

Actually can you just put traffic-triggered off-by-default red lights, similar to the ones used on highway on-ramps to trickle cars in during rush hour? If only one or two cars are seen on the road, turn the light off. If more than that, turn it on and allow one car per green every several seconds. It will reduce throughput enough that Waze will automatically route away from it (and eventually Waze editors will have…

I don't understand why "on-ramp" metered lights aren't used in many more places.

Like enforcing easy zipper merging. Put lights on both lanes that need to merge together, out there in the middle of the freeway. Turn them off when there's no traffic.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#117

Post by roelschroeven »

L_226 wrote: post #99
simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. Do you mean that Waze uses real time data provided by 3rd parties ? Because I have always had the understanding that Gmaps uses location and telemetry data from (the Google maps) mobile apps to determine traffic conditions in near real time.

Waze uses, at the very least, data from people who use Waze. But I suppose Waze also uses the location data Google gets from Android phones. And vice-versa.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#118

Post by simplesleeper »

neka wrote: post #111
simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

Waze doesn't seem to allow you to specify whether you're a trade vehicle or not so it keeps routing trade vehicles into Regents (and the other Royal) Park which they are prohibited from and liable to be fined.

Agreed - I've had similar issues when renting a big van - I was directed through streets where I didn't comply with width restrictions

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#119

Post by mjevans »

thinkingemote wrote: post #112
tschwimmer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read (sorry can't find cite) that Waze and Google maps run roughly the same routing algorithm now, but Waze is hyper-optimized for time whereas Google maps is optimized for some nebulous quality akin to "fastest reasonable route" where unreasonable factors are things like using small roads, exiting and entering the high a bunch, extra turns, etc. So Waze probably is faster by a bit, but not a whole ton. In my…

I've noticed Waze optimizing for quickness. Not fastest, not shortest, not most direct but the route which makes you feel like you are getting there quicker. Often longer stretches with no traffic or junctions for example. It's as if users main priority is not to be held up. Users don't care if the journey is two minutes longer or a few pence more expensive, they just don't want to be feeling they are making no progr…

The psychological pressures of 'progress' and 'entrapment' (E.G. being trapped in gridlock or long lines) are not to be underestimated.

If rush hour were still actually an _hour_ rather than a smear that covers all of daylight hours and then some, happy hours and other 'avoid the traffic' distractions would likely see more utilization as an alternate means of avoiding the above problems.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#120

Post by mjevans »

sosodev wrote: post #33

It seems to me that Waze isn't the problem. I've seen very similar problems where I live. When the freeway gets backed up, as it inevitably does, traffic spills out into awfully designed city streets. I once got stuck in small neighborhood for 2 hours while the freeway was backed up and that was before Waze existed. In Southern California we have massive urban sprawl most of which is filled with cul-de-sacs within cu…

You've come closest to the true point.

The root cause of the traffic problem is the interrelated web of: Sprawl, civic planning failures (insufficient housing near jobs), lack of stable careers (getting long term housing near long term jobs), and generally too many people needing to move too far due to inefficiencies in our society.

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