The mere possibility of tampering with memory is indeed the most dangerous thing that could happen to humanity. Imagine not being able to believe your own memory. In fact we don't have to imagine, I believe I've been subjected to "mass gaslighting" on multiple occasions recently on the internet : some piece of information I'm sure I saw on the internet suddenly completely disappears. Google + Facebook + "right to be…
> Imagine not being able to believe your own memory. Done. Memories are notoriously unreliable and you shouldn’t treat as ultimate source of truth.
The growing science of memory manipulation
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Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#62The mere possibility of tampering with memory is indeed the most dangerous thing that could happen to humanity. Imagine not being able to believe your own memory. In fact we don't have to imagine, I believe I've been subjected to "mass gaslighting" on multiple occasions recently on the internet : some piece of information I'm sure I saw on the internet suddenly completely disappears. Google + Facebook + "right to be…
The right to be forgotten is a right, as the name suggests.
It always existed, if I want to be fogotten IRL I can, why shouldn't it be possible online?
What's the difference between deleting my social timeline and burning my pictures or my diary?
One of my favourite books is "The Late Mattia Pascal" (Il fu Mattia Pascal) from Luigi Pirandello, it was written in 1904 and it's the story of a man who's unhappy and one day discovers that his wife and mother in law found a body and declared it to be his own, so he becomes officialy a dead person.
He takes advantage of the fact to escape his true identity and create a new one, settling in Rome, far from were he was born.
The story is fascinating and a masterpiece about what's really "identity", how we all wear masks and how we all are different (sometimes very) people depending on who you ask.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
A human is just an animal.
An animal with analytical and self-reflective mental faculties other animals do not seem to possess, or be able to articulate. For example, I know that some of my memories are not original. They are memories of me previously remembering something, which I was able to remember clearly at the time, but can’t recall as clearly now. But my memory of the experience of remembering it and the circumstances in which I did so…
It doesn't seem that unlikely to me. We've no way of telling if the mice in this experiment know the memory is untrustworthy, but avoid the smell anyway just in case
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Great apes, corvids, large parrots recognize their reflection in a mirror. Some of them are known to use tools in the wild. Cetaceans are officially recognized as conscious beings. What separates humans from animals is not a sharp edge, but something more like a smooth gradient.
None of which addresses the point in question. To re-iterate: >Just because an animal can't tell the difference between the real and artificial memory does not mean a human couldn't do the same. These animals seem to uncritically follow the artificially stimulated behaviour as though it was 'real' or original to them. It seems a reasonable suggestion that, perhaps, a human would be able to distinguish it from an orig…
Are you suggesting that is wrong? If so sure, explain why.”””
What you describe is behaviour I observe in humans. I wonder if I demonstrate such behaviour, and how I might find out. To the extent that I am self-critical it has been by observing that other people are not.
When I was a teenager I was interested in the occult, and had several experiences which seemed totally real at the time, but which I can only explain now as self-hypnosis — while my accidental Philosophy A-level taught me not to believe everything in the New Age section of the bookstore, my mother continued to believe that Bach flower remedies could help her memory right up until she forgot what those “remedies” are because of encroaching Alzheimer’s.
My earliest childhood memories are 2/3rds dreams and I only found out by asking my relatives about things which occurred within them, not by introspection.
And then Brexit, where… well I can say with high probability that half the country believes the other half is out of touch with reality, and vice-versa, but all the online arguments seem to show each side accusing the other of uncritically parroting cliches.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#65Just because an animal can't tell the difference between the real and artificial memory does not mean a human couldn't do the same. Using animals in research is generally inaccurate.
In the same way, we can't tell humans can do it without testing the hypothesis first.
If animals can, probably we can, if animals can't, it's possible that we can't as well.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
imagine starting every day of your working life thinking you just got done with a wonderful two weeks vacation, energized and ready to continue on with your employment tasks! in fact with our new happy memory management service your employees will never need to take a vacation, weekend, or fake sick day again - because they will think they just did!
Remind me of Robin Hanson's Age of Em. Ems are human minds copied into computers and executable there. Being easy to copy, you can spin up as many Elon Musks as you need. And if you have the brain state stored, every day you can have those Elons on the best, most work ready, focused day of their lives. All digitally, of course.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#67On the other hand, this could mean that people will not have to study anymore (eg a new language), because they can just download it to memory. "Oh man why does this Speak French download takes an entire 3 hours!?!?"
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#68This is a provocative experiment, both in terms of the results and certain elements of the employed experimental techniques. What I found particularly interesting is that it elicits a consideration of what is memory. Is the association of stimulus-response a 'memory'? (Where does that leave 'instinct'?) One could argue that the experiment has created an artificial 'instinct' and not 'memory' given that there was no '…
You don't remember the faces of all the people you meet on the way to work, even though they usually are the same people everyday.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#69The mere possibility of tampering with memory is indeed the most dangerous thing that could happen to humanity. Imagine not being able to believe your own memory. In fact we don't have to imagine, I believe I've been subjected to "mass gaslighting" on multiple occasions recently on the internet : some piece of information I'm sure I saw on the internet suddenly completely disappears. Google + Facebook + "right to be…
For almost two decades now I believed that "Total Recall" was mostly science fiction, that almost none of it will happen in real life anytime soon. Looks like I was wrong. [1] Philip K. Dick was a genius, with Paul Verhoeven not too far behind.
Re: The growing science of memory manipulation
#70The mere possibility of tampering with memory is indeed the most dangerous thing that could happen to humanity. Imagine not being able to believe your own memory. In fact we don't have to imagine, I believe I've been subjected to "mass gaslighting" on multiple occasions recently on the internet : some piece of information I'm sure I saw on the internet suddenly completely disappears. Google + Facebook + "right to be…
> "right to be forgotten" type of policy The right to be forgotten is a right, as the name suggests. It always existed, if I want to be fogotten IRL I can, why shouldn't it be possible online? What's the difference between deleting my social timeline and burning my pictures or my diary? One of my favourite books is "The Late Mattia Pascal" (Il fu Mattia Pascal) from Luigi Pirandello, it was written in 1904 and it's t…
If I want my picture gone from the high school yearbook, nobody will help me track down every copy and mask the image.
If I want the local grocery cashier not to greet me by name, I can’t make them forget me.