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Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

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Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#91

Post by cameronbrown »

orthoxerox wrote: post #83
tschwimmer wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once read (sorry can't find cite) that Waze and Google maps run roughly the same routing algorithm now, but Waze is hyper-optimized for time whereas Google maps is optimized for some nebulous quality akin to "fastest reasonable route" where unreasonable factors are things like using small roads, exiting and entering the high a bunch, extra turns, etc. So Waze probably is faster by a bit, but not a whole ton. In my…

Do you use turn by turn navigation in Maps? It could've adjusted its predictions to your driving patterns.

I'd assume any kind of "ETAnet" would be trained on everyone's driving patterns, not individuals.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#92

Post by michaelmrose »

geofft wrote: post #58
nradov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It turns out than bans on through traffic aren't legally enforceable. The signs are merely advisory.

Woah. Can state law change this, or is this a federal funding requirement? (I can't imagine it's a constitutional requirement. Plenty of publicly-funded services from food stamps to the restrooms at Area 51 have restrictions on which members of the general public can use them.)

In some areas governments put up signs like this without stopping to complete the triviality of actually passing a law allowing them to do so.

Whereas there might be nothing whatsoever wrong with such a law you can't legally fine or arrest people for not following instructions you were never legally authorized to give. Essentially anything you put on a sign doesn't gain the force of law.

Example GA went through some drama regarding that notably their local chief of police publicly stated

http://dunwoodynorth.blogspot.com/2017/12/dunwoody-homeowner...

residents in my neighborhood were looking for relief from this cut thru issue along with more enforcement of speeding, stop sign violations and trucks also cutting thru. I reached out to Chief Grogan to share the neighbors concerns and asked that he have the Dunwoody legal staff research the legality of enforcing the "No thru Traffic" on public streets as I personally see the issue as unenforceable.

I wouldn't be surprised if some neighborhoods or property owners also put up fake signs. Wouldn't be the first time.

Occasionally with less selfish motives

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/kbnzvw/fake-street-sign-i...

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#94

Post by kevingadd »

ishi wrote: post #89

The article tries to paint Waze as an "evil" corporation, but to me it sounds like they haven't perfected their algorithms yet. If Waze reroutes 1,000 cars to a shortcut that can only handle 100, that's idiotic and does not provide a good service to users. But if their algorithms took the road's capacity into account, everyone would benefit since there would be no "synthetic" traffic jams. In my experience traffic ap…

At this point it seems meaningful to describe behavior as "evil" if it's relatively easy to identify that your algorithm is working badly or producing bad/dangerous outcomes but still leave it running as-is. Do small scale tests until it's fixed instead. Driving cars is dangerous as-is, it's not going to be great to send thousands of people down residential roads that might be less safe than arterial roads AND make them drive worse by frustrating them with bad traffic.

I share your experiences with Google Maps and Waze giving me bad or actively dangerous directions. I learned to distrust those apps as a result.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#95

Post by kevingadd »

Freak_NL wrote: post #85
r00fus wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Near my downtown side-streets there are temporary barriers that you can actually drive around (but you know you're going against what the sign says). I presume enforcement is always an option. Another point, on my street there used to be horrible backup right in front of my house, but once the light near the school nearby went to a half-duplex mode, apps stopped recommending it as a sure bet shortcut. Once that happe…

If the signs prohibit passage, Waze wouldn't be able to use that (legally invalid) route, would it?

Waze and Google Maps tend to have bad/outdated data and tell people to make illegal turns. The roads near my apartment changed over a year ago and I still see people make illegal left turns (including Lyft drivers unless I warn them about it in advance).

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#96

Post by saurik »

scruple wrote: post #71
01100011 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waze has given me a lot of stupid advice in the last couple years. It will take me off a freeway, requiring many lane changes in heavy traffic, only to route me onto a clogged surface street and back onto the freeway after an exit or two. It usually fails to save me any time, and causes a lot of headaches. I stick with Google Maps now unless I need the police and hazard warnings(long road trips mostly).

I've had similar experiences with Waze. These sorts of things drive me insane. All of this sort of maneuvering around and jockeying for position... For what? If I'm lucky I can save myself 5 minutes? No, thank you. I wish these apps had options to turn that stuff off. Having said that, I'm not a SoCal native but I've been here for over a decade now. It drives some of my SoCal native friends up the wall that I won't g…

That's the whole point of Waze: if you weren't trying to frantically get somewhere as fast as possible, no matter the cost (I mean, this app is even trying to warn you about police cars so you can get a lower risk for constantly speeding...) you would download a more mainstream app.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#97

Post by Dylan16807 »

ishi wrote: post #89

The article tries to paint Waze as an "evil" corporation, but to me it sounds like they haven't perfected their algorithms yet. If Waze reroutes 1,000 cars to a shortcut that can only handle 100, that's idiotic and does not provide a good service to users. But if their algorithms took the road's capacity into account, everyone would benefit since there would be no "synthetic" traffic jams. In my experience traffic ap…

> But if their algorithms took the road's capacity into account, everyone would benefit

The people getting extra non-resident traffic on residential streets don't benefit.

But let's ignore them and look only at current drivers. It's quite possible for routing even one car through shortcut neighborhoods to be a net negative, because they have to spend time leaving and merging back with the main traffic flow.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#98

Post by baq »

bparsons wrote: post #73

This is a function of living in an unlivable city -- not technology. It is physically impossible for there to be enough roads to move 14 million SUVs to and from home each day.

more like a function of driving in a place that physically can't accommodate the sheer number of cars. the city could be very livable if public transport was the better option than a private car.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#99

Post by L_226 »

simplesleeper wrote: post #80

Transport for London Tech Lead here. In London, we have been collaborating with google waze - we provide them with information at the local level. Streets that waze should not use for route finding (e.g. roads with schools) can be blocked for use by Waze. Both local councils and TfL can provide this data. The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data. There are multiple map…

> The main difference between Waze and Google Maps is that Waze uses real time traffic data.

Do you mean that Waze uses real time data provided by 3rd parties? Because I have always had the understanding that Gmaps uses location and telemetry data from (the Google maps) mobile apps to determine traffic conditions in near real time.

Re: Traffic apps turned L.A.’s neighborhoods into ”shortcuts”

#100

Post by megaremote »

ishi wrote: post #89

The article tries to paint Waze as an "evil" corporation, but to me it sounds like they haven't perfected their algorithms yet. If Waze reroutes 1,000 cars to a shortcut that can only handle 100, that's idiotic and does not provide a good service to users. But if their algorithms took the road's capacity into account, everyone would benefit since there would be no "synthetic" traffic jams. In my experience traffic ap…

I guess you bare no responsibility for blindly following google? Ridiculous that we just accept people driving these dangerous 2 tonne vehicles everywhere for their own selfish reasons.
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