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Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

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Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#211

Post by goatinaboat »

bad_user wrote: post #193
elevenbits wrote: post #187

I'm astonished at all the comments that vilify MongoDB Inc and then talk about moving to AWS's MongoDB clone. What sort of twisted world are we living in where a company makes a service, tries to sell the service, and then are lambasted when they try to prevent a competitor from copying it wholesale? Cloud providers have been able to stand on the shoulders of giants, profiting immensely from millions of lines of open…

We live in the world where we can see a bait and switch for what it is. MongoDB was advertised as being Open Source and Free Software , distributed under an OSI-compliant and FSF-compliant license. Now they are trying to eat their cake and have it too. > " then are lambasted when they try to prevent a competitor from copying it wholesale? " Because that's not what open source is about. Open source is about contributi…

I hope somebody forks MongoDB from the version when it was open source.

That no one has done that already suggests that no one thinks it’s worth doing. And it isn’t, Postgres is properly free, and more than surpasses Mongo in all aspects.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#212

Post by OJFord »

holografix wrote: post #209

Can’t we trace a clear line that says: “Here is my new tech. It’s FOSS you can access the code and use it for free to build other technologies with it. You may not simply provide my tech as a service and charge money for that’s my biz model” Example: Here’s a fantastic new mixing machine. You can make your own for free and use it in other applications such as making smoothies or cakes. You may not start an industrial…

My understanding (from asking the same before) is that:

* Yes, but that's de facto _not_ open source, because all OS licences allow commercial use by definition;

* A licence isn't a magic bullet, you can have this model but if you're not prepared to enforce it it's useless.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#213

Post by SergeAx »

nevi-me wrote: post #204
bad_user wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live in the world where we can see a bait and switch for what it is. MongoDB was advertised as being Open Source and Free Software , distributed under an OSI-compliant and FSF-compliant license. Now they are trying to eat their cake and have it too. > " then are lambasted when they try to prevent a competitor from copying it wholesale? " Because that's not what open source is about. Open source is about contributi…

> So I hope somebody forks MongoDB from the version where it was open source. To what end? Why should we use a fork that's supported by a few people when we can still use the Community Edition that's from the horse's mouth? The idea of forking things for the fun of it actually perpetuates the problem that we already have with OSS. We want to get things for free, use them to make money, but still expect support for ne…

The idea of free software is that user can (and have the right to) modify it in any way one wants. If I found a bug in free software, I can fix it by myself or wait for someone else to fix it, or pay someone to make a fix. That's the way it works.

(edit: typo)

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#214

Post by SergeAx »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #179
thiscatis wrote: post #3

Would love to see an overview of companies that fell into the mongoDB trap and have / are migrating to another DB store.

I inherited a MongoDB Ruby (Mongoid) stack that was a terrible choice for the data stored (i.e. relational data). Actually, I'm not really sure why Mongoid exists at all. After several years of pain e.g. cursor timeouts (even when supposedly disabled), iterating over the same document multiple times in the one query etc. and of course no transactions (since added). I eventually migrated to PSQL (using some custom scr…

What is the point of running containerized DB server in production? Isn't it an anti-pattern?

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#215

Post by nevi-me »

SergeAx wrote: post #213
nevi-me wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So I hope somebody forks MongoDB from the version where it was open source. To what end? Why should we use a fork that's supported by a few people when we can still use the Community Edition that's from the horse's mouth? The idea of forking things for the fun of it actually perpetuates the problem that we already have with OSS. We want to get things for free, use them to make money, but still expect support for ne…

The idea of free software is that user can (and have the right to) modify it in any way one wants. If I found a bug in free software, I can fix it by myself or wait for someone else to fix it, or pay someone to make a fix. That's the way it works. (edit: typo)

But what's the difference between open source, free, and "source available" for inspection?

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#216

Post by radiator »

elevenbits wrote: post #187

I'm astonished at all the comments that vilify MongoDB Inc and then talk about moving to AWS's MongoDB clone. What sort of twisted world are we living in where a company makes a service, tries to sell the service, and then are lambasted when they try to prevent a competitor from copying it wholesale? Cloud providers have been able to stand on the shoulders of giants, profiting immensely from millions of lines of open…

I am not sure that part is 100% accurate: "where a company makes a service". Are you referring to MongoDB Inc making MongoDB?

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#217

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

SergeAx wrote: post #214
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I inherited a MongoDB Ruby (Mongoid) stack that was a terrible choice for the data stored (i.e. relational data). Actually, I'm not really sure why Mongoid exists at all. After several years of pain e.g. cursor timeouts (even when supposedly disabled), iterating over the same document multiple times in the one query etc. and of course no transactions (since added). I eventually migrated to PSQL (using some custom scr…

What is the point of running containerized DB server in production? Isn't it an anti-pattern?

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's an anti-pattern. However, doing it properly is extremely difficult.

Why do we do it? Cost saving. It's that simple. For your information, I wouldn't say we do it "properly" either. We do a decent job though.

Basically, for us (and many other businesses) DBs are not the bottle-neck. Our business model facilitates a heap of static content that's served (via a CDN) without even hitting the DB. When the DB is used, it's 99% read-only; except for the analytics which aren't business critical.

As with all things, it's a trade-off.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#218

Post by lozenge »

nevi-me wrote: post #137
mbreese wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your choice is between (1) get MongoDB support from AWS and (2) get MongoDB support direct from MongoDB, the fact that Security, Cloud engineering and Finance know AWS and how to work in their environment seems to be the obvious choice. The difference between (1) and (2) is probably minimal enough to make the existing relationship with AWS meaningful. I don’t know enough about the costs of the two, but it’s possib…

My point is that those support functions' lack of understanding of realms outside of AWS shouldn't be the sole motivator for not using a technology. What happens if a company that uses Software A has good motivation to use B, but their support functions don't understand B? Aren't the support functions supposed to improve by seeking to understand B, even at the initial inconvenience of time and resources?

Would you bring a single Windows server into a Linux shop? This is the same, but most of the cost is administrative instead of technical.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#219

Post by filleduchaos »

OJFord wrote: post #212
holografix wrote: post #209

Can’t we trace a clear line that says: “Here is my new tech. It’s FOSS you can access the code and use it for free to build other technologies with it. You may not simply provide my tech as a service and charge money for that’s my biz model” Example: Here’s a fantastic new mixing machine. You can make your own for free and use it in other applications such as making smoothies or cakes. You may not start an industrial…

My understanding (from asking the same before) is that: * Yes, but that's de facto _not_ open source, because all OS licences allow commercial use by definition; * A licence isn't a magic bullet, you can have this model but if you're not prepared to enforce it it's useless.

> Yes, but that's de facto _not_ open source, because all OS licences allow commercial use by definition;

The idea is probably that one would have to pay for commercial usage, which absolutely is compatible with open source.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#220

Post by merb »

SergeAx wrote: post #214
Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I inherited a MongoDB Ruby (Mongoid) stack that was a terrible choice for the data stored (i.e. relational data). Actually, I'm not really sure why Mongoid exists at all. After several years of pain e.g. cursor timeouts (even when supposedly disabled), iterating over the same document multiple times in the one query etc. and of course no transactions (since added). I eventually migrated to PSQL (using some custom scr…

What is the point of running containerized DB server in production? Isn't it an anti-pattern?

actually it works quite well when done correctly. basically k8s is less of an container solution and more like a "scheduling" solution. so it's actually way less painfull than setting up your own db.
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