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South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

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Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#81

Post by whatshisface »

grecy wrote: post #59
chrisseaton wrote: post #2

> worrying is that the SSA has said that such surveillance and data collection is "common practice" globally I think if you believe that any major country is not intercepting all undersea fibre cable traffic within their reach or even beyond it then you’re being very naive. I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone.

> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people. They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true. Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

You should show them the reactions of elected representatives to hearing about it. (I know of only a few clear verifications, if anyone more knowledgeable wants to chime in with a list that would be welcome.)

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#82

Post by arthurcolle »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #69
grecy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people. They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true. Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.

What does this comment even mean?

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#83

Post by Zarath »

wp381640 wrote: post #54
chrisseaton wrote: post #2

> worrying is that the SSA has said that such surveillance and data collection is "common practice" globally I think if you believe that any major country is not intercepting all undersea fibre cable traffic within their reach or even beyond it then you’re being very naive. I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone.

Someone makes this exact same comment every time there is a privacy story - not realising there is a very big gap between speculating on what a governments capability is and having it confirmed Sure - people in privacy circles may suspect this and sneer at the general public for thinking it is news, but it is a big deal to have it confirmed, to raise awareness of it and actually do something about it

I think the Trump tweet from the other day confirms that this speculation is not at all unfounded. I think 20cm resolution from satellite images is even better than most people speculated.

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#84

Post by mikorym »

_akei wrote: post #78

Surveillance is nothing new in South Africa. It is not even a secret. We have a regulation with a name that fully disclose that your communications can be intercepted. It is called RICA, which is short for Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication-Related Information Act 70 of 2002 [1]. When you buy a new SIM card, you have to register it using your identification document and proof…

> legally obtained

As an aside, you and I both know how easy it is to get an activated sim card... But I agree with you comment; this article is not really "news".

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#85

Post by dondada »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #69
grecy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people. They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true. Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.

That the NSA and GCHQ were illegally collecting phone records and internet browsing details of anyone they wanted.

The fact that the UK government recently passed a law[0] to make this legal makes it pretty clear that this is real.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/nov/29/snoopers-chart...

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#86

Post by feanaro »

Zarath wrote: post #83
wp381640 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone makes this exact same comment every time there is a privacy story - not realising there is a very big gap between speculating on what a governments capability is and having it confirmed Sure - people in privacy circles may suspect this and sneer at the general public for thinking it is news, but it is a big deal to have it confirmed, to raise awareness of it and actually do something about it

I think the Trump tweet from the other day confirms that this speculation is not at all unfounded. I think 20cm resolution from satellite images is even better than most people speculated.

Which tweet?

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#87

Post by matharmin »

pfundstein wrote: post #22
chrisseaton wrote: post #2

> worrying is that the SSA has said that such surveillance and data collection is "common practice" globally I think if you believe that any major country is not intercepting all undersea fibre cable traffic within their reach or even beyond it then you’re being very naive. I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone.

It surprises me as a South African because I didn't know our government had the technical capability or capacity to store and process so much data, let alone splice undersea cables without detection.

I strongly doubt they spliced the cables. From the article it sounds like they got a court order (probably unconstitutional), allowing them to intercept the data. So they probably just needed to install a couple of big servers at the landing sites.

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#88

Post by mikorym »

> it also covers information about organised crime

Let's just pause a bit here. In South Africa, if your phone gets stolen and you go to the police, they may well respond with: "Yes we know the guy, but we're not going to do anything." [1]

I think that surveillance doesn't have the same twang in South Africa that it has in the US and EU. Organised crime and unorganised violent crime for that matter in one thing that a lot of South Africans would like to see better monitored or "surveilled" if you will.

South Africa has this sort of dichotomy between illiteracy and high level tech that I think many people outside of Africa are not aware of. There is 60% youth unemployment [2] and at the same time it's the most developed African country. I heard a story that some of the surveillance tech that Muammar Gaddafi used was built by a company in Stellenbosch.

Most middle class people will have some form of armed response and cities especially are pro-surveillance for crime prevention, many of it by 3rd party security companies. I think that there is some kind of common sense notion of how to differentiate between security and privacy that the CIA or NSA could only dream of. Security means not being robbed; privacy means leave my life out of yours.

As mentioned in some of the comments, surveillance is not new at all in South Africa and in fact is much less than under the previous, non-democratic government.

But to summarise, South Africa is from a "freedom" point of view a really great country. You can pretty much do things and live the way you want. The level of crime and incompetency of the police is, however, too much to live with for some people.

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#89

Post by d3v0 »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #69
grecy wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can’t understand how this news would surprise anyone I tried to tell my family about the Snowden leaks and the implications just a year ago. They are all university educated people. They categorically did not believe that what I was saying was real, and when I showed them all the leaks they did not believe the content was true. Billions of people simply don't believe it's true.

What did you think was in the leaks? In my experience, when people say their parents or friends didn't believe what they said was in the leaks, the parents and friends were usually right.

I'm sorry but you are either implying that the leaks were fake or that 'parents and friends' are always right. In both cases I'll disagree heavily.

Re: South African authorities admit to mass surveillance

#90

Post by antonvs »

feanaro wrote: post #86
Zarath wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Trump tweet from the other day confirms that this speculation is not at all unfounded. I think 20cm resolution from satellite images is even better than most people speculated.

Which tweet?

He tweeted a picture allegedly from a classified spy satellite:

https://www.npr.org/2019/09/02/756673481/amateurs-identify-u...

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