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Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

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Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#171

Post by scarface74 »

Spivak wrote: post #165
xchaotic wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you got it backwards. A relational schema change is required and probably a data reindex or reload when you change a data model so relational is the least flexible as opposed to something like Mongo nosql?

If you’re just talking about storing and retrieving documents in a hierarchy with a semi-fixed format then aren’t you asking for a filesystem?

How do you propose that you query a filesystem? In this context, we are referring to a “document” as a structured JSON document. You still have a semi known structure with fields that you can index and query.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#172

Post by ken »

colordrops wrote: post #97
tedivm wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB changed their licensed from an open source license to one that has restrictions specifically aimed at busting up Mongo (the company)'s competitors who offer managed MongoDB services. These restrictions mean it is no longer an open source project. It is also worrying for a lot of people that mongo was willing to change license terms like this, as it means they may be willing to do so in the future if it brings…

Couldn't someone just fork on the last fully open source version of Mongo, similar to the genesis of CentOS?

Following the links here: "mongodb and mongodb@3.6 do not build from source anymore" -> "We gave up on this as we have no clue on how to fix the build, or it would take too much time."

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#173

Post by lolinder »

tedivm wrote: post #151
Thorrez wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought the new license is just about offering MongoDB as a service by itself. But if you're making any other sort of website and use MongoDB as a database, you can still install it and use it for free. If the companies got lured into using MongoDB as a service, then I understand that prices could increase and companies could be in a pickle. But if companies got lured into using Mong…

The fact that mongo was willing to screw over one set of users makes me worry they'd be willing to screw over all their users. It's a risk I wouldn't take, especially when there are so many other (arguably better) options out there.

I wouldn't choose mongo for many reasons, but this licensing change isn't one of them. It's in line with the general spirit of the GPL: if you're going to stand on the shoulders of giants, you should allow others to stand on your shoulders.

The only major change to the license is in adapting to the rise of cloud services.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#174

Post by lolinder »

Thorrez wrote: post #130
zxcvbn4038 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of companies got lured into using mongodb because it was so developer friendly. It cost nothing and it was easy bring in the back door and alleviated the need for thought. Then their sales people started coming around and asking for insane sums of money (like $10,000 per instance per year plus 100% markup on hardware to run in AWS - support is extra). They were worried about amazon and others offering a better…

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but I thought the new license is just about offering MongoDB as a service by itself. But if you're making any other sort of website and use MongoDB as a database, you can still install it and use it for free. If the companies got lured into using MongoDB as a service, then I understand that prices could increase and companies could be in a pickle. But if companies got lured into using Mong…

https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license...

The FAQ for the license change very clearly indicates that your reading is what was intended. Question #4 particularly contains the complete text of the section that was altered, and it's hard to see how they could have left themselves any room to penalize regular users.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#175

Post by truth_seeker »

thiscatis wrote: post #3

Would love to see an overview of companies that fell into the mongoDB trap and have / are migrating to another DB store.

I am neither for MongoDB or for any famous ABC or XYZ DB. But before I make my decision to change to any other DB, i evaluate my using my own conscience and not depend upon bashing of any X DB on the internet.

I had the opportunity to redesign the architectures of few productions running apps because of this superstition "Companies are falling due to MongoDB, lets switch to another DB"

Every single time, as an architect I have found that developers are just being fancy about their first-hand experience with some other database and they are unable to think in new direction which MongoDB is built for.

Following are the things most people miss:

1. MongoDB is not safe/secure. Anyone can hack it -> the default configuration were not optimized in previous MongoDB version but it doesn't mean it lacked User security API.

2. MongoDB does not support JOINs or query API just sucks -> No, it doesn't. First, You need to learn about denormalization and schema handling. Second, MongoDB supports JOIN semantics such as $lookup & $graphLookup. Third, it supports ElasticSearch like text searching capabilities and scoring. Fourth, it supports data aggregation pipelines with various ways to compose the data transforming operations including above 2.

3. It does not have triggers like RDBMS -> It has "change streams" which is more flexible than Trigger. This feature also enables multiple application servers in microservice architecture to use MongoDB as a central store. Want a custom ETL streaming pipeline? You got it.

4. It does not scale like ABC or XYZ DB -> Again understand point #2. Also, look into docs how distributed sharding works across replica sets. Spend some quality time figuring out what should be the KeyField to be used for distributed sharding of Data.

5. Licencing sucks -> Have you understood the whole project cost and complexity ? Have you actually looked at all the terms and conditions or are you just a big fan of OSS and for that you can support any stupid alternative?

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#176

Post by zeta0134 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #145

I have a question: has anyone simply forked MongoDB from the time just before the license change? Owners of open source software can change the license, but can they change the license of old code?

IANAL, but this happens fairly often within the community. My loose understanding is that code released under the AGPL remains licensed under the AGPL; the license can't just be retroactively revoked like that. The company may require that active forks adopt a new name and branding due to trademark disputes, but this is a different matter not covered by the license.

I was not able to find an active fork; the closest thing I'm finding so far is here, but it hasn't seen any activity for 7 months:

https://github.com/normousdb/normous

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#178

Post by [deleted] »

truth_seeker wrote: post #175
thiscatis wrote: post #3

Would love to see an overview of companies that fell into the mongoDB trap and have / are migrating to another DB store.

I am neither for MongoDB or for any famous ABC or XYZ DB. But before I make my decision to change to any other DB, i evaluate my using my own conscience and not depend upon bashing of any X DB on the internet. I had the opportunity to redesign the architectures of few productions running apps because of this superstition "Companies are falling due to MongoDB, lets switch to another DB" Every single time, as an archit…

[deleted]

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#179

Post by Benjamin_Dobell »

thiscatis wrote: post #3

Would love to see an overview of companies that fell into the mongoDB trap and have / are migrating to another DB store.

I inherited a MongoDB Ruby (Mongoid) stack that was a terrible choice for the data stored (i.e. relational data). Actually, I'm not really sure why Mongoid exists at all.

After several years of pain e.g. cursor timeouts (even when supposedly disabled), iterating over the same document multiple times in the one query etc. and of course no transactions (since added). I eventually migrated to PSQL (using some custom scripts) and everything is so much easier to maintain, much more stable and much faster.

We're still using MongoDB for our analytics though, as it's inherently unstructured non-relational data, so MongoDB does actually do an okay job. Well, except for the run away memory usage which leads to k8s killing the DB server for violating memory constraints every so often. Yes, MongoDB itself is configured with memory constraints, it seems WiredTiger ignores them.

Licensing was considered, however honestly MongoDB itself is (or at least was) so bad that licensing wasn't the primary motivating factor.

EDIT: Just to clarify, most of our data is relational, however we do have some unstructured data in PSQL stored in JSONB columns. They work a treat and in some cases have complex indexes on them - they far out-perform anything MongoDB was able to offer us.

Re: Homebrew removes MongoDB from core formulas

#180

Post by bszupnick »

thiscatis wrote: post #3

Would love to see an overview of companies that fell into the mongoDB trap and have / are migrating to another DB store.

For my side project/startup (volunteer management and organisation for NGOs and political campaigns) I fell right into the trap.

I'm not enough of a DB person to know if it was Mongo, or the ORM I was using (Waterline), but my data is extremely structured and relational. Once I switched over to Knex/Objection with a Postgres DB, everything went much smoother. The transition, though, took around two months, was hell, and I almost turned back many times.

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