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Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

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Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#21

Post by i_am_proteus »

bitcurious wrote: post #18

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

I had the same experience and was disappointed. But a good mesh app is inherently difficult to monetize!

Combining mesh over some/several form(s) of 802.11, Signal protocol public key distribution "locally" via QR code, and Delay-Tolerant Networking (Cerf et al. 2007) would be the holy grail (and would have no reliance on SMS or phone number) and also could not be monetized. Which is a damn shame, because it's eminently technically feasible, but complicated enough that I'd probably need a professional team to implement.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#22

Post by joering2 »

bitcurious wrote: post #18

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

I used a simple mobile "burner" and was fine to authenticate. I bought bunch of $5 cards with cash in a small store and used this one in my dumb flip phone bought on a flea market few months ago. I am certain to a high degree that's pretty enough setup to stay under radar.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#23

Post by cwyers »

mintplant wrote: post #16
frisco wrote: post #6

Super interesting. At Burning Man this year it seemed like a significant percent of the city had goTennas, which had never been true before. I also remember reading about a big mesh in Brooklyn being a thing recently. I bet we’re going to be hearing more about practical mesh networks in the coming years.

Reminds me of Nintendo's PictoChat, a peer-to-peer, physical proximity-based chat application that was built into the DS. I've written about it on here before [0]: > [You could] chat on one of four available channels with nearby users over local wireless, by exchanging text and hand-drawn pictures. > At about the peak of its popularity—right before smartphones became truly prevalent among kids my age—I was doing midd…

I think a few things hampered Nintendo. Their (laudable) commitment to backwards compatibility led to them getting stuck behind the curve technologically -- the POWER architecture they stuck with from GameCube (when it was a mostly mainstream choice) to WiiU (when it really wasn't) and the older pre-Cortex ARM designs they were using in the 3DS years after Cortex was shipping left Nintendo of the position of not being able to really ride the bulk of the improvements happening in the marketplace. (It's notable that the Switch is an abandonment of hardware-based backwards compatibility in favor of Nvidia internals that wouldn't look out of place in an Android tablet.)

And because Nintendo prides themselves on being a family company, in much the way that Disney does, they had less of a tolerance for looking the other way at just how bad other users can be. Microsoft would just throw out an "Online interactions not ESRB rated" warning and moderate the worst of it after the fact when building Xbox Live. I don't think Nintendo ever saw that as an acceptable option.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#24

Post by Phlarp »

joering2 wrote: post #22
bitcurious wrote: post #18

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

I used a simple mobile "burner" and was fine to authenticate. I bought bunch of $5 cards with cash in a small store and used this one in my dumb flip phone bought on a flea market few months ago. I am certain to a high degree that's pretty enough setup to stay under radar.

This burner phone and your "real" phone are going to be easy to correlate retroactively based on the towers they are both hitting

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#25

Post by cwyers »

bitcurious wrote: post #18

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

How would it being open source solve the problem of addressing?

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#26

Post by goatsi »

bitcurious wrote: post #18

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

For an open source, anonymous version of this check out the Briar Project: https://briarproject.org/how-it-works/

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#27

Post by rolph »

rmason wrote: post #10
rolph wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are a number of mesh apps available they are just not promoted mainstream as they are problematic to monetize and undercut current chat platforms

I know of a few mesh apps. But what's significant about this one is the protesters self selected it. Dictators can cut off social media apps, even cut of Internet access. But they risk turning more people out in the streets if they cut the power.

interesting that mentioning mesh and the problems of adopting it for anything but philanthropism is not considered valid by some. Yes there was a group consensus that a mesh was needed to communicate as a workaround to internet blockades, the only next step now would be to jam whatever the equivalent of 802.11* is over there. I seriously wish them best of luck, thats all i can hope for from here. Cutting the power would be exactly the thing that escalates it from NotMyProblem to now its affecting me

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#28

Post by aficiomaquinas »

aantix wrote: post #9
aficiomaquinas wrote: post #8

I met the founder, Jorge Ribs, a couple of times. He gave me some of the best advices I've received about Silicon Valley. Great guy. I'm happy it's gaining traction!

What was the advice?

He introduced me to the SV culture and compared it with Latin American culture (We're both Latin American). Gave me examples I could relate to and practical advice on how to work with Americans. Introduced me to a couple of lawyers and some other persons. Explained me my options regarding raising venture capital in the Valley (in the end I wasn't ready for raising).

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#29

Post by loyukfai »

hkmurakami wrote: post #15
imglorp wrote: post #13

Don't they require a state-run app on everyone's phones as part of their social credit system? It should at least know who is using the mesh app if nothing else?

I don't think that applies to HK (yet), which auxiliarily is related to what the protesters are protesting about (separation of legal zones)

Right.

AFAIK, even in China you're not required to do such except perhaps being a Uyghur in Xinjiang...

However, the PRC government is believed to have full access to popular apps like WeChat, among other surveillance tools.

If I were to do it, maybe I'd just ask phone makers to install such tools as system or ring-0 apps. Why would I give the people a chance to choose whether to participate in my mass surveillance scheme?

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#30

Post by zawerf »

Does anyone have good technical resources on how mesh networks work?

Who's the authority on the identity of a recipient? Do you exchange something out of band (for example a QR code) first? How do messages get routed? How do messages behave under constant network partitioning and healing? Does it use your GPS location for network topology purposes? etc etc

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