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Tired of Stack Overflow

arp242.net

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Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#51
post #21

This culture is why I've never contributed to Stack Overflow. I'm a reasonably senior engineer, I've been lucky to experience an extraordinary breadth of technology in my career, and I love helping people learn to program... but I just don't have the time or emotional energy for SO's top posters to pick apart the minutia of every word I say in an answer. The ROI for me is nil.

It just turns into a "ACTUALLY!" contest, of who can pee higher. No matter how right you are, some guy will link a blog post detailing why in some obscure scenario that might not be valid, and proceed to downvote your obviously wrong answer.

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#52
post #21

This culture is why I've never contributed to Stack Overflow. I'm a reasonably senior engineer, I've been lucky to experience an extraordinary breadth of technology in my career, and I love helping people learn to program... but I just don't have the time or emotional energy for SO's top posters to pick apart the minutia of every word I say in an answer. The ROI for me is nil.

I have a small number of answers, and the most successful / least criticized ones were always on niche languages or topics. C/C++/Java? No chance. I corrected a wrong answer on a question in C++ once, which was immediately reverted with “nope, your answer is too different from the original, make a new answer”. Great, so now there’s an answer that is fundamentally wrong with 26 upvotes that apparently can’t be corrected because the correct version of the algorithm is too different from the original. I just stay away from answers in those languages now, they’re more effort than they are worth

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#53
I avoid SO too.

However, I didn't understand this:

[...]

There is no pass by reference, so I’m not sure where you got that. You’re simply passing the value, which is a copy and not going to change the original.

...is parading that they’re stupid and wrong, while beating your chest about how much smarter you are.

[...]

It sounds neutrally worded to me. Can somebody here point out what part of it is considered hostile and how it can be improved?

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#54
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On StackOverflow, a decent amount of site reputation is required before one can down-vote.

You also lose 1 reputation for down-voting which helps prevent people from getting too trigger happy

Interesting, I had no idea of this

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#55

One thing that always bothered me about SO was that it shows who answered and their score. It should display answers without the user until an answer is accepted. There’s been many cases where a high score user answers, gets a lot of upvotes cos people are like “oh his score is 30k so he must be right” yet the answer is not good or incorrect. And there is a better more correct answer by someone with a Low score who g…

I get the desire for answers to be evaluated on their own merits, but here is an argument for the system staying the same as it currently is:

1. If you're asking for help on a topic, then--by definition-- you are in an information asymmetric situation. You don't know what the right answer is. There's a decent chance that you, as the asker of the question, are not in a position to evaluate the answer on its merits.

2. Therefore you have to choose the answer based on other factors. On SO you can do something like see if the proposed answer makes sense to you, and check if the answer produces the results you want. Those are pretty okay metrics. But, obviously, they aren't perfect. Whether it makes sense to you doesn't fully track the truth of the situation, and whether it works or not doesn't address whether it's a good idea for other reasons, like being grossly inefficient, or deprecated, or unmaintainable, or whatever. So there's a decent chance that you can't evaluate the answer on its own merits, AND that sensible heuristics will fail you because you don't know what you don't know about the full context of the question, and might choose a wrong answer as a result.

3. Therefore, an additional useful signal you can track is the reputation and apparent expertise of the person who is answering. Of course, exactly as you say, it's not a perfect metric. But I think it's a meaningful signal that is generally useful to consider. Eg. If Jon Skeet answers my C# question, I just have a strong prior that it's correct in a robust way.

It's an empirical question whether removing that signal would somehow improve the overall outcome (eg. removing that signal forces people use only use the heuristics that are based on the question itself instead of short circuiting that process in favor of an easier social signal).

But I would bet that the empirical test would show that including the reputation signal improves outcomes, on the general prior that more information is better than less information.

Edit: One thing that would change my bet: one feature of really high quality answers is that they are often long and made of parts, like they explain what to do, and what to avoid, and have details about why that is. You could track the length and detail of an answer as one of your heuristics for choosing a correct answer. If it turned out that people who have the correct answer were more likely to write answers with that sort of detail if their identity was hidden, AND it turned out that people use that sort of detail to decide if an answer were correct or not, then I could imagine better answers existing on the site overall, and those answers being more consistently upvoted.

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#56
I remember posting an answer to a CGI question with some grody, idiomatic solution, and getting scolded/downvoted by a high-rep dev (who montiored the subject tags) who responded with... a solution that didin't work! When the original asker responded, they directed them to file a bug.

That contempt and disregard for the actual day-to-day tediousness of writing commercial code is an attitude I can do without.

Also: https://imgur.com/C22vPFV

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#57
post #21

This culture is why I've never contributed to Stack Overflow. I'm a reasonably senior engineer, I've been lucky to experience an extraordinary breadth of technology in my career, and I love helping people learn to program... but I just don't have the time or emotional energy for SO's top posters to pick apart the minutia of every word I say in an answer. The ROI for me is nil.

At this point I just ask a question, get an answer, and if I don't like the commentary, I just delete it. I post there under my real name, which means I either have to address or accept dumb/nit-picking criticism, which is a no-win situation. If the person who answers actually needs the points, I'll give that some consideration, but it seems like a lot of the time the solution is offered in the comments anyway. I don…

You and the reply below have BOTH deleted questions from SO because of social overhead. That's a surprising outcome that's never occurred to me. I can imagine that many interesting questions have disappeared this way.

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#58

I'm tired with their fragmenting their site into airtight topic specific QA sites, now with many questions one isn't sure where to post it to get max eyeballs. I feel that is something that could have avoided by design. Topics could have been managed through tags, instead of walling them off into separate sites. And the obsolescence, things are moving so fast in JavaScript, Android, even in QT, Clojure etc, many answ…

>And the obsolescence, things are moving so fast in JavaScript, Android, even in QT, Clojure etc, many answers including accepted ones are obsolete, and misleading.

This is the absolute worst aspect of the site to me. Some answers are version specific, some stop working overnight one day, some used to be good practice in 2011 and still work but really aren't any more and there is no sane mechanism for stack overflow to handle any of these things.

This is quite apart from the multitude of answers which are voted to the top which are wrong, only partially right or bad answers.

Re: Tired of Stack Overflow

#59
post #21

This culture is why I've never contributed to Stack Overflow. I'm a reasonably senior engineer, I've been lucky to experience an extraordinary breadth of technology in my career, and I love helping people learn to program... but I just don't have the time or emotional energy for SO's top posters to pick apart the minutia of every word I say in an answer. The ROI for me is nil.

Same here, I’ve been a reader for 10 years or however long, but their rules were too difficult for me to follow in order to vote. I had to visit every day and do menial, non-useful things just to be able to vote or answer. This didn’t work for me because SO wasn’t something I typically visited every day. So I just couldn’t get into the habit of being enough of a user to browse and vote so it was a vicious cycle of apathy.

I appreciate SO and use it many times a year. I remember the world before SO (experts exchange was very bad), so I’m happy it exists. And it’s obviously getting along without my comments and moderation.

I always wished it would pair well with something like HN so the reputation effect from a daily activity would carry over to an infrequent activity.

I also really respected Joel Spoelsky so didn’t really have a constructive criticism as the site worked pretty well.

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