Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier • Hacker News Board

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#241

Post by dpark » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 3:37 PM UTC

msandford wrote: post #229

dpark wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). I doubt a bicycle would actually cross the starting line before a high end bike or car would surpass it. A 180lb rider would produce about 90lb of torque at most (assuming 6” crank) and that’s only for the instant that the crank is parallel with the ground. A high end car would…

You can produce torque in excess of your weight by using pedals that clip in and pedaling "circles" instead of "squares". When I was in good shape I figured I could produce torque much closer to my weight than half of it.

The average rider probably cannot produce more torque than their weight that way. A quick search indicates that professional cycling sprinters can generate slightly over 100 ft-lb of torque. The average rider won’t be producing anything close to that. (Hard to find anything definitive, though.)

If you aren’t standing up sprinting, you’re definitely not going to be getting anything close to your “body weight torque”.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#242

Post by ska » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 3:41 PM UTC

neor wrote: post #93

SCdF wrote: post #47

Does anyone have any insights to if this brings any interesting science to the table that is applicable outside of this context? I personally have zero interest in a fast car going fast, but it's always interesting to see how these sorts of difficult feats help humanity in more general ways.

For the Veyron I know they developed special tires with Michelin to be able to handle the extreme high speeds. Such development might help "normal" tires improve in durability. I can imagine this is something that happens in a lot of area's. Pushing every part to the extremes might help make them more reliable under normal usage. Ultra high speeds also require efficient aerodynamics, which in turn helps reduce drag/f…

It wasn’t just tires, but rims as well. If I recall correctly for the original at top speed the useful life of rims was about 30min, tires about 15. You on my had 12 min of fuel at that rate though. Rim + tire replacement was something like 100k USD. Not that anyone was going to be able to put many top speed minutes together in practice.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#243

Post by zenonu » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 3:42 PM UTC

mrleiter wrote: post #169

The milestone of reaching faster speeds with combustion engines seems to be a wrong goal in this day and age. Climate change is a fact, and the burning of material based on oil/coal is a major driver of this. The effects have been known for decades, but only now major impacts can be seen and felt. In German, there is this phrase, which describes the time period after a certain success/enjoyment/well-being. Literally…

This is an extremely narrow point of view, and one that actually hinders the support of properly dealing with climate change.

Halo car engineering results in trickle down effects to all of the vehicles you and I drive on a daily basis. Tire materials and engineering, aerodynamics r&d, suspension improvements, and so forth can apply to all types of vehicles, regardless of whether or not the power comes from an ICE engine or electric motor.

So while you may see this as a needless exercise in achieving 300 mph on a combustion engine, I see this as perhaps something that could give a 1% increase in fuel economy to VAG's entire fleet. Of course it's not a given, but let's applaud and support the potential.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#244

Post by dpark » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC

hazeii wrote: post #234

dpark wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). I doubt a bicycle would actually cross the starting line before a high end bike or car would surpass it. A 180lb rider would produce about 90lb of torque at most (assuming 6” crank) and that’s only for the instant that the crank is parallel with the ground. A high end car would…

Yes, but the car has to accelerate around 20 times the mass. Bugatti Veyron is listed as having the highest torque [0] at 1,106lb/ft but then it weighs over 4,000 lbs. Plus there'd a delay for the engine to rev up to peak torque before the launch (i.e. it wont produce 1,100ft-lbs at idle). Be interesting to test, but I'm not too practiced at racing Veyron's off the line on my bicycle. Having said that, I am very used…

Race cars don’t launch at idle. If you’re racing cars that are idling when the light turns green, then you aren’t racing their engines. You’re racing the driver’s disinterested reaction time.

The Veyron might weight 20x as much as you and your bike, but has over 300x the power output of the best sprinters in the world.

Given equal reaction time and equal interest in racing, I am doubtful your cycling advantage would last for more than inches against a high end sports car.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#245

Post by leetcrew » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:06 PM UTC

roelschroeven wrote: post #220

leetcrew wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a standard Porsche 911 is not really a racecar. it can be really fun to drive on a track and it will get good lap times, but no one would race this car in a serious competition. this type of car will mainly be driven on the street and in amateur races. now there are certain racing series like FIA GT3 where manufacturers are required to make a certain number of street-legal vehicles to qualify that car for the competi…

I get that the Porches in races are not exactly like the Porches on the street. But how does that work for Bugati, Ferrari, Lamborghini (and McLaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg)? Are the street cars (more or less) the same as the ones in races? Do they even race? And in conclusion, how accurate is the statement that (production models of) Ferrari, Bugatti, Lamborghini are focused on race track performance?

there's an inherent tradeoff between comfort/luxury on the street and track performance. every luxury feature adds weight, which compromises track performance. for the track, you want a stiff suspension and you want the car to be as low as possible to the ground. when you drive on the street, you probably don't want to feel the crashing impact of every pothole and you really don't want to worry about scraping the car (or even getting stuck) on speedbumps.

> But how does that work for Bugati, Ferrari, Lamborghini (and McLaren, Pagani, Koenigsegg)? Are the street cars (more or less) the same as the ones in races? Do they even race?

it's hard to give a simple answer to this question because the manufacturers you listed make a pretty wide range of cars. they try to hit a lot of different points on the luxury vs track performance, but they're all oriented much more towards repeatable track performance than a model s.

if by "race" you mean the local track, sure, all of these cars are going to perform very well. even the most luxury focused models are going to totally outclass my hot hatch and keep going for a lot longer. if you're talking about a serious race, no you cannot just show up with your street-legal ferrari and start racing. for one thing, safety regs for these races will usually be incompatible with local laws for street cars (eg, roll cages are illegal in many jurisdictions, but required for races), and you would want to strip out a lot more weight anyway (passenger seat, floormats, etc) to be competitive. you can get really close with certain homologated models though. I believe most of the manufacturers you listed participate in GT2/GT3, but I'm not familiar with the specific cars from every brand.

> And in conclusion, how accurate is the statement that (production models of) Ferrari, Bugatti, Lamborghini are focused on race track performance?

it's true that any car from any of those manufacturers is going to be much more focused on repeatable track performance than mass market hondas, VWs, etc. the extent to which comfort and practicality is compromised varies a lot between specific models.

I hope this answers your question. I'm certainly not an authoritative source, just an enthusiast.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#246

Post by corkscrew » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:13 PM UTC

dpark wrote: post #221

hazeii wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe I did point out that on Ninja's (I have one) you need to build the revs; you can't just dump the clutch and go like you can on a BMW Boxer or a Harley (which I also have). Hence the Ninja is generally slowest away when the lights change (but is by far the quickest bike overall). In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes…

> In fact bicycles are fastest off the line, since they produce max. torque at 0rpm (just keep weight on a pedal, release the brakes to go). I doubt a bicycle would actually cross the starting line before a high end bike or car would surpass it. A 180lb rider would produce about 90lb of torque at most (assuming 6” crank) and that’s only for the instant that the crank is parallel with the ground. A high end car would…

Track cycling sprinters (myself included) can produce over 300 Nm of peak torque (more than many mid range cars)

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#247

Post by skim_milk » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

tialaramex wrote: post #13

It's futile to actually have road-legal cars that go this fast because you can't do very much useful with the speed. This is much too fast for the human operator (driver) to safely react to things outside the cockpit, which is why for example Britain owns trains capable of 140mph in service but deliberately limits them to 125mph. Tests suggested drivers couldn't be relied on to reliably observe and react to a linesid…

I drive a nice looking car and get asked almost daily how fast it goes or how expensive it is or how much power it has. Bugatti is on point bringing out all the big numbers because that's what all the non-car-guys want to know! Who cares about practicality when you can be the guy that owns the car that makes all the dudes brag to their friends that they spotted a car that can go x miles per hour etc.

On the other hand, if I get asked those questions, I have to judge the person asking and do some calculus in my head to determine if I can get away with lying that it goes 200mph or costs 200k despite not even coming close to reaching those numbers. Or respond with another impressive factoid they can go home and brag about when I don't want to reveal my wealth or my lack of it. Bugatti owners don't have that problem!

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#248

Post by kenned3 » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:18 PM UTC

beatgammit wrote: post #239

dalbasal wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it could be operated safely by a person, it still would have no practical value. This is not a transport feat, it's an engineering/brand feat.

How is it not practical? We have race tracks in my area, so if I owned one of these, I'd get a ton of use out of it destroying other people on the track. That's pretty practical from my perspective. It's not going to make my commute any faster, but that's not the only use for cars.

"destroying other people on the track." this isnt practical.

also, tracks have turns and this thing weights like 2 tons so good luck with that.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#249

Post by leetcrew » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:25 PM UTC

brosinante wrote: post #72

parsimo2010 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much all modern cars will go faster than is useful and/or safe. Only a small set of public roads allow cars to go their top speed. I have a 1991 Corvette that will go 153 mph, and I've only done it twice. It scares the crap out of me. Top speed is a cool thing to boast about, but most people won't ever see it, and a few stupid people will hurt themselves with it. That's okay on the balance, because millionaire…

a few stupid people will hurt themselves with it. That's okay on the balance, because millionaires are spending their money and supporting the economy. I fail to see how that is ok.

bugatti tends to only make <50 of each of its models, and many of them are driven rarely if ever. it's not "ok", but there are much more pressing concerns in the world of road safety. I've never even seen a bugatti in person.

Re: Bugatti has broken the 300mph barrier

#250

Post by beatgammit » Mon, Sep 02, 2019, 4:36 PM UTC

jfk13 wrote: post #138

cs02rm0 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last statistics I saw showed ~50% of all traffic (which includes vehicles with speed limiters) travel in excess of the 70mph motorway limit in the UK. Personally, I tend to cruise at an indicated 100mph because above that enforcement ratchets up. Which is about 160kph. I certainly think it's fair to describe that as not uncommon. I do similar speeds in France and Germany and am rarely the fastest vehicle around.

> Personally, I tend to cruise at an indicated 100mph In the UK? OK, at least it's clear what you think of the law. Personally, I hope you get nailed for it. That sort of contempt for both the law and other road users ought to be penalised. (Maybe you only cruise on empty motorways at 3 AM, and so that makes it acceptable...?)

In the US, I often drive in roads with a posted limit of 80mph going ~100mph, and even then I get passed sometimes. It's not inconsiderate to other road users if I make sure to pass and yield appropriately, though it's certainly a violation of the law.

And yeah, I think the law is stupid. I believe that we should eliminate speeding tickets and have police only enforce "reckless driving". Going the speed limit could be much more dangerous than exceeding it given traffic and road conditions. Going 2x the speed limit with no other cars in sight should be penalized much less than failing to signal when changing lanes while in traffic; the former only puts the driver and passengers at risk, while the latter risks all cars within a half mile or so if they cause a pileup.

Police seem to enforce the former far more than the latter because it's easier, not because it has the biggest impact.