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Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

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Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#41

Post by parsimo2010 »

sn41 wrote: post #17

Not only are there Islamic themes, there are also Jewish themes. The name "Kwisatz Haderach" is based on Hebrew. (This is mentioned in the list.)

There are a number of religious themes blended in Dune. The main religious text is the Orange Catholic Bible, which by name implicates Catholicism/Christianity, but also includes Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism. It even includes hypothetical blends of Islam/Buddhism and Christianity/Buddhism. Frank Herbert never fully explains how all religions eventually ended up blended into one, but he does explore the religion quite a bit, and some background is given in the prequels that his son wrote.

I enjoy it, because I feel very clever when I recognize how some idea in Dune can be traced to an existing religion or philosophy.

https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Orange_Catholic_Bible

Edit: to speak more to your main topic, I believe the Bene Gesserit tradition of following matriarchal lineage comes from some part of Judaism.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#42

Post by boomboomsubban »

madhadron wrote: post #22

> It is amazing that Frank Herbert would be exposed to this term, and make use of it. This sort of summarizes the article. The author is apparently unaware that Frank Herbert had wide and varied interests and did an enormous amount of research for the books.

Or they are completely aware that Herbert did vast amounts of research, and they are still impressed at some of the things he encountered.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#43

Post by antisemiotic »

eccbits wrote: post #19

“This article is not meant to be a literary nor an exhaustive topical critique of the novels, which I am cannot fully do, because simply, I did not read the original novels. ” Why is this highly rated on HN then?!

On a tangential note, your post reminded me that I should go read "How to talk about books you haven't read", at least for the peace of mind, if not anything else.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#44

Post by lrem »

princeb wrote: post #26

i wonder if there was a general feeling in the 80s or so that the shrinking of the world - through the internet or whatever else technology people of the 80s may foresee - would cause the world views of different communities around the world to become more syncretized, in the same way you have various diaspora e.g. Chinese-American, Italian-American, Chinese-Indonesian cultures having plenty of cultural and religious…

Note that even in Herbert's world, most members of the congregation setting up OC retracted their support for the Bible and/or got executed by their churches soon after coming back home. Universal adoption came centuries later.

I think something similar does happen in the real world. Sitting on a fence does win you hate from both sides, yes. But take for example Poland, a deeply Catholic culture with quite a bunch of Islamic symbolism (e.g. traditional szabla being a crescent-shaped sword, unlike the cross-shaped of the rest of the Europe) and even a well integrated Muslim minority (stuck around since repelling the crusade in 1410).

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#46

Post by huomri »

liability wrote: post #13
jokowueu wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How different is it from a Shia esque suicide attack ?

Higher production value.

Woah i wasnt trying to be racist the Fremen in the books literally go on a genocidal jihad later. In the first book they hint at just how far their fanaticism goes and explicitly includes a part where they hijack a vehicle and crash it into Harkonnen troops. The political undertones would be interesting to see play out in this modern climate.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#47

Post by huomri »

thih9 wrote: post #32
theon144 wrote: post #30

>The novel is symbolic about the dependence of the West on the oil, and the power struggles to control this valuable resource. Very first paragraph, and already a turn-off.

Could you elaborate?

Dune has often been interpreted as a story that contains metaphors to nodern politics such as how the spice dependence is similar to our oil dependence and undertones of how authoritarian regimes try to control the fates of peoples. A lot of the events in the books can be drawn as parallels to our history and modern day situations.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#48

Post by AllegedAlec »

Anothernhym wrote: post #28
flukus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The prelude books are OK and the sequels at least gave us some closure. The butlerian jihad trilogy was awful though, it was there to give some necessary background information for the end of the series but when you've got characters with ancestral memories and characters that can see through time that probably could have been done in a much better way.

Your post was downvoted based on peoples' silly biases against the idea of anybody but the original author contributing to a sci-fi universe.

> Implying implications

A more likely reason is that most of them are really badly written. The books feel as though the writers wanted to make a quick cash grab using existing IP, but completely misunderstood what the exact appeal of the original works was.

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#49

Post by fjfaase »

parsimo2010 wrote: post #41
sn41 wrote: post #17

Not only are there Islamic themes, there are also Jewish themes. The name "Kwisatz Haderach" is based on Hebrew. (This is mentioned in the list.)

There are a number of religious themes blended in Dune . The main religious text is the Orange Catholic Bible, which by name implicates Catholicism/Christianity, but also includes Islam, Judaism, and Buddhism. It even includes hypothetical blends of Islam/Buddhism and Christianity/Buddhism. Frank Herbert never fully explains how all religions eventually ended up blended into one, but he does explore the religion quit…

'Catholic' does not neccessary refer to Roman Catholic and/or Christianity. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)

Re: Arabic and Islamic Themes in Frank Herbert's “Dune” (2004-2017)

#50

Post by fjfaase »

flukus wrote: post #11
egdod wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people (myself included) try to forget the Brian Herbert books ever existed.

The prelude books are OK and the sequels at least gave us some closure. The butlerian jihad trilogy was awful though, it was there to give some necessary background information for the end of the series but when you've got characters with ancestral memories and characters that can see through time that probably could have been done in a much better way.

They (B&K) always claimed that their end of the series was based on the notes by Frank Herbert that they found at some point. They however, have never disclosed those notes, to at least give us an opportunity to verify those claims. I have a hard time accepting their revelation about Marty and Daniel. I also believe that their interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad deviates substantial from the idea of Frank Herbert. And that it is just the other way around, that they had to deviate from the notes by Frank Herbert (which it seems they only found after having written the prequels) to make them fit with those prequels.
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