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What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

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Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#141

Post by coldtea »

perl4ever wrote: post #122
coldtea wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't tell if sarcasm or not, but the US doesn't have some "unthinkably high standard of living". It's actually below most western European countries in most global metrics, including such basics as infant mortality. It trumps most in gun deaths and incarceration rates though, so there's that... E.g. http://premieroffshore.com/usa-is-best-country-in-the-world/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_rankings_of_t…

The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K. That seems like a huge difference to me and I don't think anybody really understands why it exists - American or not. It's salient not because it disproves your judgment (and that of many others) that the US is a dysfunctional hellhole, but because it is what people are compelled to rationalize away and obviously don't succee…

>The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K. That seems like a huge difference to me and I don't think anybody really understands why it exists

For one, the EU has dozens of ex Eastern Bloc communist countries (including areas of ex-USSR) which still play catch up and wages are still much lower.

Second, money is not everything. If the state, every day life, cost of living, etc is set up in a good way, you can get 2x or more the quality of life for half the money.

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#142

Post by vageli »

nostrademons wrote: post #58
vageli wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> > The top 5 providers likely account for the overwhelming majority of all email. I don't think this is true. At least, it wasn't true in 2016 according to this ( https://email-verify.my-addr.com/list-of-most-popular-email-... ), these figures ( https://emailclientmarketshare.com ) for email clients in 2019 don't suggest a massive change, and anecdotally it seems unlikely -- a lot of people use addresses from univer…

A lot are still on Outlook. You might be surprised at the degree to which Microsoft still dominates enterprise IT.

I have experienced this firsthand in enterprise :)

However, I think the tide is turning with universities. Enterprise will be longer I think largely because of Excel (so might as well have O365, might as well add Outlook, etc).

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#143

Post by CyanBird »

perl4ever wrote: post #122
coldtea wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't tell if sarcasm or not, but the US doesn't have some "unthinkably high standard of living". It's actually below most western European countries in most global metrics, including such basics as infant mortality. It trumps most in gun deaths and incarceration rates though, so there's that... E.g. http://premieroffshore.com/usa-is-best-country-in-the-world/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_rankings_of_t…

The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K. That seems like a huge difference to me and I don't think anybody really understands why it exists - American or not. It's salient not because it disproves your judgment (and that of many others) that the US is a dysfunctional hellhole, but because it is what people are compelled to rationalize away and obviously don't succee…

>The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K

This is meaningless because it is not normalized, the EU has a higher purchasing power parity than the US which is what your average citizen truly cares about

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/few-see-eu-...

Post-Hard Brexit it will probably change, EU PPP has already been damaged by the current Brexit scandals, and the last few years of increased US Dollar interest rate has increased relative US PPP, but because of income inequality those financial changes aren't really transferred to the everyday US citizen

Also, the difference in raw incomes is mostly based of the so called "Exorbitant Privilege" the US has for having its currency be the default world reserve currency, it is quite easy to understand when one comprehends that the US central bank basically "prints gold", and that like ~60% of all international transactions are done abroad but with the US dollar as transaction medium

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#144

Post by perl4ever »

CyanBird wrote: post #143
perl4ever wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K. That seems like a huge difference to me and I don't think anybody really understands why it exists - American or not. It's salient not because it disproves your judgment (and that of many others) that the US is a dysfunctional hellhole, but because it is what people are compelled to rationalize away and obviously don't succee…

>The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K This is meaningless because it is not normalized, the EU has a higher purchasing power parity than the US which is what your average citizen truly cares about https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/few-see-eu-... Post-Hard Brexit it will probably change, EU PPP has already been damaged by the current Brexit scandals…

"This is meaningless because it is not normalized, the EU has a higher purchasing power parity than the US"

I find it rather unbelievable that things are cheaper in Europe. A few years back, I used to work for a multinational, which opened an office there, and some people I knew went and at least one or two stayed, which lead me to idly consider the idea of being an expat, and my cursory research indicated salaries are lower and the cost of living is higher.

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#145

Post by perl4ever »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #138
perl4ever wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) You can cherry-pick US states too, and; 2) Just look at the chart I linked to - on decadal timescales, the EU was catching up to the US rapidly and then plateaued, in more than one cycle. No idea why, but something significant was happening and then stalling. Obviously history wasn't retroactively occurring and being eradicated.

2) It's good data, the graph shows 2008 as an inflection point. I think that's the disastrous austerity programme chosen by political leadership throughout europe. Instead of investing they decided to cut spending in a recession. That's my take anyway. 1) You can't brush off foreign occupation 29 years ago as cherry picking. This dataset starts in 1960s, when all of Eastern Europe were soviet puppets. There is nothin…

"There is nothing comparable in recent US history."

Of course there is. What transition happened in the US in the 60s, that the country is still not completely out of? You'd know instantly if an American was using it as an excuse (as is quite common) for not matching various European metrics.

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#146

Post by CyanBird »

perl4ever wrote: post #144
CyanBird wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The World Bank[1] says in 2018, US GDP per capita was over $62K while the EU was under $37K This is meaningless because it is not normalized, the EU has a higher purchasing power parity than the US which is what your average citizen truly cares about https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/08/09/few-see-eu-... Post-Hard Brexit it will probably change, EU PPP has already been damaged by the current Brexit scandals…

"This is meaningless because it is not normalized, the EU has a higher purchasing power parity than the US" I find it rather unbelievable that things are cheaper in Europe. A few years back, I used to work for a multinational, which opened an office there, and some people I knew went and at least one or two stayed, which lead me to idly consider the idea of being an expat, and my cursory research indicated salaries a…

I mean, from my perspective, just the fact that you had the chance to work abroad for a multinational would put you way ahead of the wage the median US citizen has to survive on, so your experience is not representative of the median, let alone PPP stats

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#147

Post by specialist »

jodrellblank wrote: post #48
specialist wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks. Added to reading list. Also, nice tidbit about SAIC. It seems that many coops get coopted. Suggesting there's some as yet unknown magic sauce that makes some coops more durable. I'm very interested in comparative governance models. All tips, links welcome. I just want someone to point at some real world working organizations. Kinda like how QA obsessives study the Toyota Production System. -- I joined a FOSS…

Have you read anything by Pieter Hintjens, the creator of ZeroMQ? He wrote quite a lot on organising people, particularly software development, but instead of focusing on how to make people efficient, he focused on how to organise the group to protect from opportunistic outsiders / psychopaths coming in and taking personal advantage and destroying the group in the process. After having his early work ruined several t…

Belated reply, apologies.

I read Social Architecture (after my Kuali experience). It's very good. In my head, it sits alongside Clay Shirky (eg Here Comes Everyone).

Whenever questions like "how do I make money working on open source?" and "which license should I use?" comes up, I expect Hintjens' wisdom to be at the top.

Alas. I'd cite Hintjens myself, but I have yet to put his wisdom to practice, so I'd be just another poseur.

I also read his writings about health and dying. I can only hope that I have such grace when it's my time.

His others are in my queue.

Re: What to do once you admit that decentralization never seems to work (2018)

#148

Post by ClumsyPilot »

perl4ever wrote: post #145
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2) It's good data, the graph shows 2008 as an inflection point. I think that's the disastrous austerity programme chosen by political leadership throughout europe. Instead of investing they decided to cut spending in a recession. That's my take anyway. 1) You can't brush off foreign occupation 29 years ago as cherry picking. This dataset starts in 1960s, when all of Eastern Europe were soviet puppets. There is nothin…

"There is nothing comparable in recent US history." Of course there is. What transition happened in the US in the 60s, that the country is still not completely out of? You'd know instantly if an American was using it as an excuse (as is quite common) for not matching various European metrics.

I actually don't know what you could be alluding to. Civil right movement?
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