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What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

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Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#11

I find it interesting that a culture is being described here where Senior Engineers are considered lower level, with multiple higher levels above that. It just goes to show that titles mean different things at different companies, and you cannot generalize across this industry. I've had the "Staff Software Engineer" title once in my career. It was at IBM, in the 90s, where it was a was a title given to anyone who was…

I always thought it was intended to differentiate “line” engineers (charged with the core work product) from “staff” engineers (focused on advising and supporting the org more broadly): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_and_line

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#12
post #6

I find it interesting that a culture is being described here where Senior Engineers are considered lower level, with multiple higher levels above that. It just goes to show that titles mean different things at different companies, and you cannot generalize across this industry. I've had the "Staff Software Engineer" title once in my career. It was at IBM, in the 90s, where it was a was a title given to anyone who was…

I think it became widespread because Google named their levels that way. Not sure of the origin of the title at Google though.

My feeling is that it traces from the institution of staff officers in the military:

> General staff: in the military, a group of officers that assists the commander of a division or larger unit by formulating and disseminating his policies, transmitting his orders, and overseeing their execution. Normally a general staff is organized along functional lines, with separate sections for administration, intelligence, operations, training, logistics, and other categories.[1]

[1] https://www.britannica.com/topic/general-staff

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#13
post #5

I'm sure this just suits some people's fancy but the idea of being in a "track" is so off putting and mind numbing to me. Ooh here is where I'll be exactly in 5, 10, 15 years. So exciting /s. So glad I went self employed almost a decade ago.

Yeah. I’m the same. Im sure it’s to my detriment that I hate the hoop jumping rat race nature of the modern workplace, but I think opting out has led to greater happiness.

I just know I would absolutely hate competing over positions and titles. The real beneficiaries of this are the owners of the businesses who make up these meaningless distinctions in order to get everyone grinding their lives away for shiny baubles.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#14
Are the tracks actually parallel?

Had she gone into management after 5 years, how would the compensation, promotion opportunities, or job opportunities have differed?

I see many people go into management because they think it's the only way to continue to grow a career.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#15
post #6

I find it interesting that a culture is being described here where Senior Engineers are considered lower level, with multiple higher levels above that. It just goes to show that titles mean different things at different companies, and you cannot generalize across this industry. I've had the "Staff Software Engineer" title once in my career. It was at IBM, in the 90s, where it was a was a title given to anyone who was…

I think it became widespread because Google named their levels that way. Not sure of the origin of the title at Google though.

Google probably got the terminology from Bell Labs. A "Member of Technical Staff" was for PHDs or very accomplished engineers. See https://www.quora.com/When-did-Bell-Labs-add-the-Distinguish...

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#16
Working for mostly smaller companies, titles haven’t really meant anything. My influence came mostly from using the other two levers in the organization - building relationships and building a reputation.

I have a lot more influence over the technical/infrastructure direction of the company I work for now as “just” a senior developer than I ever had at my last company where I was officially the Dev lead with dotted line reports.

There to get anything done I had to go through layers of red tape. Where I am now, I’ll use my own discretion on whether I should let the manager know or do everything in the Dev AWS Account (or create another account), do a proof of concept and let them know. Most of the time I either get the okay or a few tweaks or suggested.

And before I get the replies from the infrastructure gatekeepers. Yes, I’m qualified to make infrastructure decisions and I’ve been browbeaten enough across three jobs to know about compliance issues (HIPAA in our case) inside and out.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#17

Are the tracks actually parallel? Had she gone into management after 5 years, how would the compensation, promotion opportunities, or job opportunities have differed? I see many people go into management because they think it's the only way to continue to grow a career.

Where this has been implemented well, the limitation is essentially C-suite level, because those are the highest level and inherently management positions, however it's common for something along the lines of Principle/Fellow/Distinguished engineers (terminology differs) to be equivalent to the step down from C level. That said, while these roles don't include management, they may end up being mostly outreach rather than the individual contributions to the company codebase that a senior engineer might be doing.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#18
post #5

I'm sure this just suits some people's fancy but the idea of being in a "track" is so off putting and mind numbing to me. Ooh here is where I'll be exactly in 5, 10, 15 years. So exciting /s. So glad I went self employed almost a decade ago.

Yeah. I’m the same. Im sure it’s to my detriment that I hate the hoop jumping rat race nature of the modern workplace, but I think opting out has led to greater happiness. I just know I would absolutely hate competing over positions and titles. The real beneficiaries of this are the owners of the businesses who make up these meaningless distinctions in order to get everyone grinding their lives away for shiny baubles…

This is what a union does. Lots of folks like these structures.

These mid-size and larger companies offer defined pay, bonus, perks, expectations, and many other predictable attributes. This structure is of a high value to folks who prize stability, to take care of things like their family.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#19

Are the tracks actually parallel? Had she gone into management after 5 years, how would the compensation, promotion opportunities, or job opportunities have differed? I see many people go into management because they think it's the only way to continue to grow a career.

Where this has been implemented well, the limitation is essentially C-suite level, because those are the highest level and inherently management positions, however it's common for something along the lines of Principle/Fellow/Distinguished engineers (terminology differs) to be equivalent to the step down from C level. That said, while these roles don't include management, they may end up being mostly outreach rather…

I've never seen an organization both credibly claim that their tracks had equivalent benefits (e.g. similar compensation), and also have comparable leveling requirements for both tracks. The bar for going up the management track is always lower.

The difference at some companies is so stark that they sometimes feel the need to justify it with statements like "the title of fellow is reserved for truly world class engineers with a lifetime of achievement and wide-reaching industry acclaim" when no such requirement exists anywhere up the management ladder, including (and sometimes especially) in the C-suite.

Management is essentially gaslighting you into thinking that you're not as valuable as they are unless you're Linus Torvalds. That's a level at which any comparison is obviously laughable, but the break-even point is usually far lower than this, and the organization wants to do everything it can to keep you from figuring that out. The majority of highly paid managers at large companies simply don't provide much value compared to a reasonably productive engineer. The concept of an "equivalent technical track" is a bone they throw at you so that you don't rage quit.

So looking at this strictly as a numbers game, you're almost always worse off on the technical track. That doesn't mean you should go into management -- I just think it's important to know the true costs when making this sort of choice.

Re: What a Senior Staff Software Engineer Does

#20

Call me unambitious but I think I’d rather just write some code every day.

There is nothing wrong with knowing what you like to do, and doing it. And having folk like you on a team is important - teams struggle whenever everyone is jockeying for a better position. So while "unambitious" can get a negative connotation, it deserves more respect - it gets the job done, and that is valuable.
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