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Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

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Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#111

Post by gonk »

maxklein wrote: post #59

I've been pushing this idea: "A half-way house for suicidal people" Basically, if you're intending to commit suicide, you simply register for the project, and you get an all-expenses paid trip to Iraq, Afghanistan or Congo or some other really dangerous place. Spend two to three months helping people out, then feel free to commit suicide after that. No counseling, no attempt to talk you out of it, just a chance to be…

I've advocated this for depression, too .. if you think you are truly depressed, then get the hell out of your environment, and go somewhere else, completely and utterly different, immediately. It works.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#112

Post by daimyoyo »

maxklein wrote: post #59

I've been pushing this idea: "A half-way house for suicidal people" Basically, if you're intending to commit suicide, you simply register for the project, and you get an all-expenses paid trip to Iraq, Afghanistan or Congo or some other really dangerous place. Spend two to three months helping people out, then feel free to commit suicide after that. No counseling, no attempt to talk you out of it, just a chance to be…

I don't post comments disagreeing with people but I'll make an exception here. This is possibly the most shortsighted idea I've ever heard. Suicidal people need a venue to discuss their issues without stress or judgement, not to be relocated to a warzone. Suicide is a real problem and as someone who has been through the darkness of those thoughts let me say this idea is completely wrong and should be relegated to trolling or satire.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#113

Post by maxklein »

daimyoyo wrote: post #112
maxklein wrote: post #59

I've been pushing this idea: "A half-way house for suicidal people" Basically, if you're intending to commit suicide, you simply register for the project, and you get an all-expenses paid trip to Iraq, Afghanistan or Congo or some other really dangerous place. Spend two to three months helping people out, then feel free to commit suicide after that. No counseling, no attempt to talk you out of it, just a chance to be…

I don't post comments disagreeing with people but I'll make an exception here. This is possibly the most shortsighted idea I've ever heard. Suicidal people need a venue to discuss their issues without stress or judgement, not to be relocated to a warzone. Suicide is a real problem and as someone who has been through the darkness of those thoughts let me say this idea is completely wrong and should be relegated to tro…

There are many venues for suicidal people to discuss their issues, and people are still committing suicide everyday. This is not to replace anything existing, it's just to reduce the number and address those who are currently not being helped by the systems you talk of.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#114

Post by bad_user »

javert wrote: post #27
callmeed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's not. I couldn't find the comments you mentioned, but the unfortunate fact is that many religious people are (at best) a shadow of what their beliefs are based on. I say this as a devout (but not fundamentalist) Christian. This entire article grieves me–including his descriptions of how his father treated him. No matter what choices my kids make, I could never treat them that way.

I mean no personal disrespect towards you, but you're implying that religions are themselves tolerant and respectful, and that people are flawed for not being able to "live up" to them. In reality, religions tend not to be tolerant and respectful, and criticizing people in general for not being "good enough" to live up to a religious standard is unfair.

If you'll read the New Testament, you'll see nobody was more tolerant and respectful than Jesus.

And I don't know what' the fuck these extremist Christians are smoking, but they sure as hell haven't read their own bible.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#115

Post by gbog »

anon_for_this_1 wrote: post #108
WingForward wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't seen Mars? Really? It's often visible in the sky at night.

... says the "astronomy priest" to me :) I have to take your word for it. I know there is what appears to be a star that looks brighter than most others. I, personally, don't have a means at my disposal to know it's mars. I just have to believe you.

This is not faith. We agree on the name we give to that spot in the sky, which happen to be "Mars". Then we agree to name "planets" the spots that behave in a given manner, "stars" the other spots, etc. That's just how languages are built. "Believing" that the language work "well enough" is necessary for normal life and intellectual exchanges.

To dig deeper, the faith leap is more done when we agree that every night, the spot of light we see at roughly the same place in the sky is the emanation of a unique object, that deserves a unique name. This is related to the identity problem.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#116

Post by gbog »

uriel wrote: post #100
nate_meurer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or perhaps the poster is being downvoted for the cruel and sloppy generalization, just like the one you just made. Exactly what does this contribute? Brilliant programmers are "presumed" to be rational; suicide is an irrational act; therefore... what? "Physical trauma that occurred and ended 20 years ago is not the kind of thing a rational mind would choose suicide as a solution to." Childhood sexual abuse is not the…

> suicide is an irrational act Even this is very arguable, there are plenty of perfectly rational reasons for suicide.

Yes. For instance, someone who is given an impossible choice, during war may commit suicide to show his disagreement. Rationality is sometime cultural, which is difficult to accept to rational minds, including me. For instance, in old China, if someone did something very bad against you, the "rational" way to get revenge was to commit suicide in front of the door of this someone. It would bring an awfull lot of shit on his head, more than what you could do by staying alive...

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#117

Post by [deleted] »

cookiecaper wrote: post #87
javert wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Faith consists of believing something without reference to reality, i.e., divorced of reason. A scientist engaging in an experiment is attempting to gain knowledge, and he may expect the experiment to go a certain way, based on what he knows. Someone engaging in faith says, "I believe this, just because I want to." There is no reference to knowledge, reason, or reality. It's putting an "I wish" over "It is." To engag…

Obviously, we disagree. Some may do that and call it faith, but people who are serious about faith do not believe without reference to reality or reason. Their faith is also predicated upon facts which they already know -- for instance, almost all people have an internal feeling that there is a God to be found out there. As such, based on their previous spiritual experiences, they will hear some information, believe…

[deleted]

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#118

Post by [deleted] »

anon_for_this_1 wrote: post #108
WingForward wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't seen Mars? Really? It's often visible in the sky at night.

... says the "astronomy priest" to me :) I have to take your word for it. I know there is what appears to be a star that looks brighter than most others. I, personally, don't have a means at my disposal to know it's mars. I just have to believe you.

[deleted]

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#119

Post by lookACamel »

jganetsk wrote: post #94
2oi03i9fhujcnd wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree completely with what you said. It trivializes the personal pain that depressed people feel. But let's explore your reasoning further: Can you please explain to me how sending Bill Zeller to a war-torn country would have helped him deal with the sexual abuse that he experienced?

I think that, for people beyond a certain threshold on the path to suicide, putting them in a situation where basic needs are not as readily fulfilled, and where death is prevalent and imminent... is a GOOD option. Suicide rates are the highest in the happiest countries. One hypothesis is that sad people constantly surrounded by happy people are driven to remove themselves from society. Bill might have fit well in th…

Judging by the way he kept making references to the things he would never be able to have (normal loving relationship with children & wife, etc.), I think you may have a point.

Re: Princeton Grad Student And 'Brilliant' Programmer, Dies In Apparent Suicide

#120

Post by anon_for_this_1 »

gbog wrote: post #115
anon_for_this_1 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... says the "astronomy priest" to me :) I have to take your word for it. I know there is what appears to be a star that looks brighter than most others. I, personally, don't have a means at my disposal to know it's mars. I just have to believe you.

This is not faith. We agree on the name we give to that spot in the sky, which happen to be "Mars". Then we agree to name "planets" the spots that behave in a given manner, "stars" the other spots, etc. That's just how languages are built. "Believing" that the language work "well enough" is necessary for normal life and intellectual exchanges. To dig deeper, the faith leap is more done when we agree that every night,…

It is faith for _me_ since I've never looked through a telescope and seen that it is indeed a nearer-mass/rock, and not a star as it appears in the sky. Unless you have seen it with your own eyes, you too are believing based on the words of others. My point isn't that we can't verify some of the things we think are true, but my point is that we usually don't. Instead, we believe what we're taught because everyeone else around us believes.

We're not so different from the people at the time of Columbus that were taught the world was flat. They didn't (most couldn't verify it), but everyone 'knew' it was true. That had been taught it, they had books describing it, and maps showing it. They had as much evidence as I do about mars.

Many people really have seen mars through telescopes, and a number of rocket scientists have built devices to go and look at it indirectly. THOSE people KNOW mars exists. The rest of us believe, blindly, what we are told about it. I don't doubt mars exists in the least, only because I _choose_ to believe it exists.

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