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No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

zdnet.com

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Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#61

Post by Stormbringer »

alanh wrote: post #2

Another reason to go BSD over GPL unless you really do care about the GNU project more than shipping code & solutions.

If you really want to get on your high horse about companies not contributing back to open source, you need to stop ignoring the elephant in the room (Google) and you need a bigger horse.

But, this is just another prime example of the bizarre logic of Apple bashing. Never mind that Apple does more to give back to open source community than most, lets ignore the facts and bash Apple. Let me give you some more:

Greenpeace bashing Apple even though Apple was actually doing more to reduce environmental impact than any of the beige box companies. Greenpeace's logic was that even though the beige box companies were worse, they had promised to at some distant future unspecified point in time take unspecified steps to at that point be better than what Apple was today... Apple of course said no such thing about their future plans... so Greenpeace was puffing on the vaporware announcement, and bashing the company that was actually taking real steps. Incredible.

Adobe bashing Apple for not putting flash onto their phone - when no other smart phone in the world ran flash... and it would be 3 years before a serious full implementation would come out from a competitor (and lo and behold it was an awful user experience and it killed battery life).

---

Frankly, as a developer there are an absolute truckload of things to complain about Apple that get ignored, but the ones people pick to focus on are just bizarre.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#62

Post by tbrownaw »

rbanffy wrote: post #57
tbrownaw wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> values expressed in the GPL: allowing your software to be built on by those who agree to return the favor. GPL3 has gone far beyond that; instead of just requiring that the software be usable as a starting point and building block for new work, it now also mandates that it be user-serviceable. You don't just need to be allowed to modify the tivo software to make your own dvr, now you also need to be able to modify…

> don't just need to be allowed to modify the tivo software to make your own dvr If you can't do that to your TiVo, is it really yours?

The part you quoted isn't about doing things to your tivo. For the part that is, are all of my gadgets that are built with non-standard screws also "not really mine"?

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#63

Post by Stormbringer »

rbanffy wrote: post #56
alanh wrote: post #2

Another reason to go BSD over GPL unless you really do care about the GNU project more than shipping code & solutions.

> Another reason to go BSD over GPL Great. This way you take away freedoms from the users. > unless you really do care about the GNU project more than shipping code & solutions. No. You chose GPL when you really care about the freedoms your users deserve.

The GPL does not give a rat's patootie about users.

The GPL is designed to ensure the maximum freedoms of developers.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#64

Post by Stormbringer »

blasdel wrote: post #17

This is much more about a single VLC developer spitefully griefing the others than the GPL. The only reason he has grounds to send C&D letters to Apple is because he holds copyright over his contributions to VLC. The other developers don't give a shit that the Apple-distributed binaries aren't redistributable by default, given that the iOS port is still fully open source and is trivially redistributable/compilable on…

I agree that it sounds more like one developer trying to pee in the porridge pot than a genuine licence problem.

For all the people screaming about how GPL forces X, Y and Z, there is a really simple solution that has been tried and proven to work before:

just DUAL LICENCE

A dual licence allows you to work inside the GPL walled garden, and also outside of it in the real world. You can literally have the best of both worlds. It preserves maximum freedoms for the users.

What it doesn't do is advance the agenda of the GPL, which is to create a self contained and self sufficient ecosystem consisting solely of the GPL. So when dual licencing you can say, well, we're not at that utopian programmer's paradise yet, so it doesn't matter, but the less commitment people have to a strong GPL, the longer it will take to reach that ideal world.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#65

Post by billpg »

I've made a couple of video clips and published them under cc-by.

Say someone (A) wanted to use my clip in a bigger project, but couldn't give me attribution because someone else higher up in the bigger project (B) insists on not crediting any outsiders.

Would it be wrong of me in this hypothetical to demand that I either be attributed or they don't get to use my clip? Should I even feel guilty?

Bill, like anyone's going to want to use my clips of ducks quacking or sword waving.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#66

Post by gloob »

alain94040 wrote: post #26
sedachv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Open source" is a misleading term, please stop using it: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.h... As pointed out in other replies, Apple is working on clang because it doesn't want to deal with the GPL (unless you own Apple stock, you're the one losing because of this decision), and WebKit because it's derived from LGPL code. How much work is Apple putting into making Darwin a usable Free Soft…

Apple will take whatever is convenient. You're the one losing out I know it's a strawman argument, but if you feel superior to Apple, how come you didn't come up with the iPhone innovation? Saying Apple doesn't care about me when they obsess about designing amazing products that blow away anything that existed before is a little big disingenuous.

That's not a straw man. That's a non sequitur.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#67

Post by Stormbringer »

pwpwp wrote: post #18

User-hostile is what it is.

No, it's just programmer politics from some douchebag with an axe to grind.

Frankly, the entire open source community should pat itself on the back that this sort of thing doesn't happen more often. People being what they are, this is a genuine Christmas miracle.

What he should do, is pull a Theo and go off and fork the project, instead of trying to ruin it for everyone else.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#68

Post by rbanffy »

Stormbringer wrote: post #59
rbanffy wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to make it completely free (as in, "I don't care what you do with it" free), use BSD Sadly, it's also free as "please, BigNastyCorp, feel free to take away any freedoms from your users who depend on my work". While BSD may be "more free" according to some, it's the freedoms of the users we are (or should be) protecting. For those, *GPL is the license of choice.

The GPL does not give a rat's patootie about users. The GPL is designed to ensure the maximum freedoms of developers . That it simultaneously destroys any hope that those same developers can enrich themselves by selling the software is supremely ironic, as it forces them to live as wage slaves under the whims of their corporate overlords. Thus they gain one sort of liberty but at the expense of giving up other econom…

> The GPL does not give a rat's patootie about users.

Care to explain your reasoning?

> The GPL is designed to ensure the maximum freedoms of developers.

That's why it explicitly prohibits you from using GPL'ed code under proprietary licenses.

No. If you intend to engage in an intelligent debate, you should, at least, educate yourself to a point you actually can.

> That it simultaneously destroys any hope that those same developers can enrich themselves by selling the software

You can always double-license it, MySQL-style. Again, GPL is not for the developers, but for the users. In your case, it's likely you use more software than you create, so, in the end, the GPL actually benefits you despite your own misgivings and misconceptions.

> I wouldn't be able to sell software

Why? What I can't have is a monopoly on the GPL'ed software I sell. OTOH, nobody can have a monopoly on GPL'ed software. And that's a very good thing for the users, who are sure they will have both the software and the technical means to maintain it on the unlikely event I am hit by a bus.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#69

Post by rbanffy »

tbrownaw wrote: post #62
rbanffy wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don't just need to be allowed to modify the tivo software to make your own dvr If you can't do that to your TiVo, is it really yours?

The part you quoted isn't about doing things to your tivo. For the part that is, are all of my gadgets that are built with non-standard screws also "not really mine"?

With a TiVo (as with an iPod, a VCR, a PlayStation) you are either pretty much happy with what it does or royally screwed (with non-standard screws).

If you are happy with your TiVo, then good for you. If you are not, you cannot bend it to your will. It would be much better if users could do that, but, unfortunately, we are not that lucky.

You can always sell your TiVo and build your own DVR.

Re: No GPL Apps for Apple's App Store

#70

Post by alain94040 »

buster wrote: post #28
alain94040 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple will take whatever is convenient. You're the one losing out I know it's a strawman argument, but if you feel superior to Apple, how come you didn't come up with the iPhone innovation? Saying Apple doesn't care about me when they obsess about designing amazing products that blow away anything that existed before is a little big disingenuous.

Uhm.. How does it feel to be trapped in Job's Reality Distortion Bubble?

In your reality, do all smartphones have touch interfaces? That's pretty much the definition of a revolution: when you can clearly point to a before and an after.
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