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Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

bbc.com

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Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#151

Post by mattlutze »

concordDance wrote: post #134

I'm struggling to see any actual harm from this use of facial recognition if the video is deleted promptly after processing and conversion to an attendance list.

In order to make a positive ID of a student, you need to have a biometric photo of them, or a set of unique indicators that your recognition system will be able to compare against.

This facial fingerprint will need to be pretty strongly unique so as to avoid false positives or false negatives. If that information is stolen, the thief has the fingerprint for your face, which is very difficult for you to change.

The level of protection for that stored information then must be very high, because the damage to the individual in case of its loss is very high. The GDPR is in place, in part, to make certain that the justification is sufficient for an organization requiring you to handover such personal and valuable data.

"I want to take attendance" is apparently not sufficient. Further if someone wanted to get creepy, we can imagine what could happen should someone place a foreign agent along the video-recognition-attendance workflow, which then told its owner when and where certain students positively were at any time.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#152

Post by kyriakos »

groestl wrote: post #93
Iv wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…

Your place probably does not have conscription, because that is something else in terms of authoritarian experience.

much worse one actually. 18 year olds literally being forced to slavery.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#153

Post by tpxl »

cameronbrown wrote: post #128
tpxl wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A person who has not opted in has opted out. No tracking necessary.

You really think they're going to design things opt in and not opt out?

The question was how do you track whether people have opted in or not, by not having biometrics for people who have opted out. The solution is simple, if you do not recognise the person, they have not opted in.

According to the article, the experiment was constructed as opt in and several students have opted in.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#154

Post by maxheadroom »

kzrdude wrote: post #122
SomeOldThrow wrote: post #4

Meanwhile in the US, we still use a 10 digit number for our identification, regardless of who is holding it. I'm not sure which is worse :/ EDIT: phone numbers are 10 digits, SSN is 9.

The swedish personal number it has about the same use as that, except even more pervasively and you can't get may societal services without one, including picking up parcels from the post, a bank account, a job etc etc. It also plainly contains your birthday and sex. So.. Sweden.., it's very convenient when you're in the system and impractical when you are not.

>...it's very convenient when you're in the system and impractical when you are not.

This exists everywhere, though, so Sweden's personnummer isn't exactly unique in this case.

For a small subset of examples, take Norway's fødselsnummer[0] or Iceland's identification numbers[1] or Ireland's PPS number[2].

[0] - https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B8dselsnummer

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_identification_numbe...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Public_Service_Number

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#155

Post by kzrdude »

maxheadroom wrote: post #154
kzrdude wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The swedish personal number it has about the same use as that, except even more pervasively and you can't get may societal services without one, including picking up parcels from the post, a bank account, a job etc etc. It also plainly contains your birthday and sex. So.. Sweden.., it's very convenient when you're in the system and impractical when you are not.

> ...it's very convenient when you're in the system and impractical when you are not. This exists everywhere, though, so Sweden's personnummer isn't exactly unique in this case. For a small subset of examples, take Norway's fødselsnummer[0] or Iceland's identification numbers[1] or Ireland's PPS number[2]. [0] - https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%B8dselsnummer [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_identificat…

It's not claimed to be unique

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#156

Post by cameronbrown »

tpxl wrote: post #153
cameronbrown wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You really think they're going to design things opt in and not opt out?

The question was how do you track whether people have opted in or not, by not having biometrics for people who have opted out. The solution is simple, if you do not recognise the person, they have not opted in. According to the article, the experiment was constructed as opt in and several students have opted in.

The thing is, aren't all the efficiency gains wasted if even just a couple students opt out? You've still got to take a register, even if shorter. It can't be worth it for a few extra minutes.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#157

Post by xxs »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #118
xxs wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A school performing face recognition is a joke when it comes to privacy. Coming from billions dollar business, storing document copies, required by law for certain type for contracts, securely is a HUGE burden and liability (aside the permission management, etc.) alongside the necessary audits - both internal and external. Having footage and training data on kids would be a resounding 'no' from me (both as a parent a…

Facial recognition can raise privacy concerns but it does not necessarily erode privacy. Schools have a duty to provide a safe environment, including keeping track of who's on school premises, where pupils are, and whether pupils are let to leave premises when they are not expected to. Obviously the younger the pupils the stronger those duties. For example, facial recognition could tell the system that you are in the…

well, until the technology is trusted "enough", there should be audit logs - pretty much destroying privacy.

Again, with the current technology and literacy level, I'd not trust a school to be able to afford to employ proper security policies. It's already hard for businesses that actually spend substantial effort and resources.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#158

Post by lrem »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #131
balfirevic wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This used to be considered common sense but not anymore. Good! Some progress at least.

Children cannot reasonably consent to most things concerning them. Ignoring reality for the sake of ideology isn't progress. By that logic, next a doctor will refuse to vaccinate an 8 year old because the child refused to give consent.

My babies usually refused to give consent for changing nappies...

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#159

Post by pbhjpbhj »

cameronbrown wrote: post #145
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recently I traveled through UK airport security with minors and was surprised that the staff did not seek approval from a legal guardian for a body search (pat-down) of a minor. I try to refer questions of consent to my kids, but in this case the question wasn't asked, they just said "hold your hands out" and went ahead. I don't think minors can retract parental consent, but IMO schools should accommodate an individu…

Really hope your quote at the end there was just some twisted humour. That's disturbing.

Maybe I'll report it, it was pretty close to verbatim.

Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine

#160

Post by jimmaswell »

Zenst wrote: post #39
jimmaswell wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Choosing between European internet laws and having a tech sector, I'd pick having a tech sector any day. It's all totally unnecessary strangling of innovation. The entire idea that you own data pertaining to you is absurd.

There are companies thats sole business is related to GDPR compliance and software. Which is ironic given what you just said.

And there are more healthcare insurance jobs in the US but that's not a good thing.
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