Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the school claimed this way of taking attendance saves a calculated 72,000h of teachers time per year in just this school Which is 197h per day. I find this number extremely dubious.
The figure I saw (on the BBC article and the linked Swedish article) was 17,000 hours per year in this school. That still seems suspect: estimating a school year of 35 weeks that's 175 days, thus 97 hours per day across all teachers. Even if it were some mega school of 1,000 pupils and maybe 100 teachers that seems high, would imply they spent perhaps ten minutes of every hour in a six hours day taking & dealing with…
Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
91–100 of 182 posts
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
The GDPR doesn't specify what you can't do with personal data, it specifies what you can do. Personal data is private by default; you can only use my data if it is explicitly lawful for you to do so. If you're not absolutely sure that what you're doing is in line with the GDPR, you shouldn't do it. That's by design, not by accident. The GDPR's fundamental principles are set out in article 5. You should collect the le…
I don't think the argument was that it was not in line with GDPR. The argument is that GDPR is wrong itself in not allowing people to consent to anything which goes beyond "minimal" data collection for the purpose needed, because whether it is "minimal" is, in some sense, a value judgment as to how much convenience and innovation matter. It seems to me that the principle should be personal "ownership" of personal dat…
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#93Good. Not only does this ensure that the students enjoy privacy, monitoring children in school with surveillance systems could have come straight out of foucault's discipline and punish. Maybe we should think about how we make schools spaces of freedom for our children rather than turning them into the next panopticon.
School is the most authoritarian experience one typically experiences in a democracy. Here is a place where a strict hierarchy is enforced, through means of parental and peer pressure, anxiety over your future. Your schedule is planned by the minute, even peeing requires an authorization. Chatting is banned except on very limited time spans. The fact that we have kept a part of middle-age inside our modern societies…
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
The figure I saw (on the BBC article and the linked Swedish article) was 17,000 hours per year in this school. That still seems suspect: estimating a school year of 35 weeks that's 175 days, thus 97 hours per day across all teachers. Even if it were some mega school of 1,000 pupils and maybe 100 teachers that seems high, would imply they spent perhaps ten minutes of every hour in a six hours day taking & dealing with…
Perhaps it is a number based on the time that would be required for teachers to perfectly track attendance. But of course they don't in practice!
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#95The main parts of the wrong-doing: - The school had obtained consent from the pupills and each one of the pupills could opt out at any time. The Swedish Data Protection Agency (DPA) did however find that due to the power balance of a school vs a pupill, these consents are not ”freely given”, and thus are void. The school therefor have no legal basis of processing special categories of data/sensitive data, which proce…
> the school claimed this way of taking attendance saves a calculated 72,000h of teachers time per year in just this school Which is 197h per day. I find this number extremely dubious.
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#96Earlier quoted context omitted.
You misunderstand the point I'm making. After GDPR, investments in early stage startups dropped by almost 50% in the EU. If you cut investment in half, you're going to cause some startups to fail that otherwise would have succeeded. Startups are a "hits" enterprise. Most fail. Some are mildly successful. A few are responsible for almost all of the upside. Cutting investment by 50% means that instead of getting a Drop…
I fully understand your point that GDPR hasn't been good for investment or startups, and that that the likelihood of a startup succeeding to reach sustainability in the european field has significantly diminished. What I'm rejecting is that that's necessarily an undesirable state of affairs. Does the world really need the likes of Blur or DiscountMugs to succeed, when they have proven woefully incapable of protecting…
Again, I'm saying that the cost is borne by all startups, not just the ones you don't like. For startups, the main cost of GDPR isn't fines, it's less investment money and more compliance costs. That means good startups and bad startups alike must pay the price. They have equal chances of being killed in the cradle by these costs.
> I'm sorry that you have had to spend a tonne of money to attain GDPR compliance. I imagine most "incumbents" have had to spend a good deal as well; I can only hope that the next generation of companies have learnt from your company's mistakes and to structure their data processes from day 1 to avoid accruing such sensitive data in the first place.
The costs weren't high because of anything we were doing that was out of the ordinary. GDPR affects you if you even keep source IP addresses in your server logs. It mandates processes as well as restrictions. You have to train employees. You have to pay lawyers to ensure your processes are compliant. Even if everything you're doing is totally unobjectionable, the costs are significant. Current evidence indicates that many new companies are solving this problem by incorporating outside of the EU and avoiding doing business with EU customers until they're large enough to afford the costs of compliance.
> A tech sector with the same market cap? Unlikely, but we need to get over ourselves and question if preserving the techocracy's wealth is more important here.
You seem to have a zero sum view of wealth. Tech companies create wealth. They make things people want. Preventing companies from existing doesn't help others (except for incumbents with inferior products).
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everybody was informed and OK.... Except for the students they tracked, nobody asked them. Sure, they are still minors, and it's up to the parents to decide what goes and what not. But by law the parents in Sweden (and a lot of other places around the world) have an obligation to act in the best interest of their children to their best ability. I'd argue exposing their children to mass surveillance in school and face…
This is turning into a religious war, with facial recognition being branded absolutely evil. As I already wrote, I think that being able to locate pupils at all times is a legitimate concern for schools, and parents. Certainly schools already work hard to achieve this especially with younger children. I think facial recognition can bring real benefits without many drawbacks if used properly. An effective blanked ban…
No, no. It's a want. Of course parents want to know where their children are 100% of the time, of course schools want to know where the students are 100% of the time, but children are people too.
Children have the right to lie and keep secrets from their parents. They have the right to privacy, they have the right not to be under automatic surveillance all the time, because they're not fucking prisoners or slaves.
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#98Meanwhile in the US, we still use a 10 digit number for our identification, regardless of who is holding it. I'm not sure which is worse :/ EDIT: phone numbers are 10 digits, SSN is 9.
I thought we use a passport or drivers license for identification?
Most folks don't have passports. Children do not have drivers licenses or state ID's. Some places want more than one form of ID and some require a SS#, though you don't always need the card.
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
>but only take 5% of annual revenue of a large business It's 4% global revenue and it's really a lot. Fines are issued based on the amount of data and amount of people affected. Small companies rarely need anything but contact information. Storing the data securely is no trivial task for any size of organization, though. Small companies would have significantly less data and customers to be worthy of a hefty fine. Ag…
I was referring to the maximum fine. It is 4% of global revenues, or 20M EUR, whichever is greater . So the maximum fine would wipe out any business that doesn’t happen to have 20M EUR lying around - that might be 1000% of what they have, but the damage to a large business is capped at 4% of their revenue regardless of how egregious the behavior. That kind of a fine structure has only one possible purpose: it was spe…
The GDPR fine is specially done some large multinationals can’t ignore it.
Re: Facial recognition: School ID checks lead to GDPR fine
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is turning into a religious war, with facial recognition being branded absolutely evil. As I already wrote, I think that being able to locate pupils at all times is a legitimate concern for schools, and parents. Certainly schools already work hard to achieve this especially with younger children. I think facial recognition can bring real benefits without many drawbacks if used properly. An effective blanked ban…
> As I already wrote, I think that being able to locate pupils at all times is a legitimate concern for schools, and parents. No, no. It's a want . Of course parents want to know where their children are 100% of the time, of course schools want to know where the students are 100% of the time, but children are people too. Children have the right to lie and keep secrets from their parents. They have the right to privac…
Schools do have a duty of care and safety. They already do make a lot of efforts to know where their pupils are at all times, especially for younger children (obviously).
This is completely different from preventing children from having secrets and from affording them privacy.
I wish we could have a mature discussion on this and avoid hysterical terms and comparisons.