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Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

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Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#141

Post by perl4ever »

fujiters wrote: post #93
vkou wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been going into debt in order to buy housing, not on other forms of consumer spending or 'living beyond their means'. Who sells them housing? Other Canadians. Why do they go into so much debt? Because the nature of housing is that rising prices will squeeze out every last cent of saved money from the pockets of people trying to buy their first house. It boggles my mind that the average house in Vancouver or T…

At some point, it's a better financial move to rent instead of own. That is true in many American cities (much of NYC, for example). Housing bubbles happen. Try not to buy into one.

It's such a cliche to say that real estate is always local, but it is.

Where I live, my rent was essentially 2/3rds of my gross income, but I found a place to buy for about 5 times my yearly wages and either way, I'm under 10 minutes from work.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#142

Post by perl4ever »

vkou wrote: post #133
fujiters wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things get seriously unaffordable as a renter, it's always possible to move somewhere more affordable. Housing, on average, rises at the rate of inflation (it's closely linked to the cost of new construction), per Robert Shiller's research. Even if the housing market explodes in one area, there's almost certainly another area where it hasn't (normally one without restrictions on new construction-San Fransisco bein…

Affordable places don't have jobs. This is not a trend that's reversing anytime soon. > Housing, on average, rises at the rate of inflation I don't care about the price of the average house in the country. I care about the price of a house within a commuting distance of where I can find gainful employment. Right now, the prices of homes in those areas are skyrocketing, while the prices of homes in areas that don't ha…

"I care about the price of a house within a commuting distance of where I can find gainful employment."

I really didn't like it for several reasons, but not too long ago I briefly lived inside the DC beltway and had a 10 minute commute to work, and paid $1000/month for half a 2 bedroom apartment in a mid-rise that was pretty decent.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#143

Post by eqdw »

ashlebede wrote: post #39
zht wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 university degrees is probably cheaper than 1 private school degree from the US

Well, you have to pay your other life expenses during that period. If you don't work and spend 30k on rent, food, utilities, etc., then you get 30k deeper into debt every year. Even if there's no tuition.

I don't know how you made that happen but my cost of living expenses while in college never exceeded $10kCAD a year

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#144

Post by perl4ever »

rayiner wrote: post #115
neplus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this quite a bit and tried to word my initial post as a personal statement (not an objective fact of the inferiority of making $50k in Kansas as opposed to Quebec). I entirely agree with your point that American families in Kansas, et al. seem reasonably content and the kind of fears that would lead me to look to Canada over the U.S. if I made $50-100k are perhaps entirely irrational. My response…

This paradox of choice largely doesn't exist in the US either. The majority of people in both countries didn't graduate college. For almost everyone, the elite universities aren't even on the radar (much less the elite employers like FANG into which those universities feed). This upper middle class striverism is over-reported in the media, but is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans. My wife went to high scho…

The vast majority of NY is more like the cliches people spout here and elsewhere about Kansas than NYC. The capital district of NY has about a million people, and IT jobs paying $50-70K. Just as you say, "normal college graduates own houses". You can get a place here for the same inflation-adjusted price as 25 years ago.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#145

Post by acchow »

ben_w wrote: post #130
acchow wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 10 million is about double the size of the metropolitan area But you can agree that you understand and feel connected to the issues of people in your metropolitan area more than those of people in another state? Or in a rural town? Assembling funds to build a bridge/tunnel/rail in your metro feels more tangible than livestock subsidies in another state?

> Assembling funds to build a bridge/tunnel/rail in your metro feels more tangible than livestock subsidies in another state? It only feels more tangible if I personally will use it. In the case of things such as “should Berlin build a new tunnel?” (something I suspect I will never use), the trouble is the more effort I put into understanding such a possibility, the less it matters to me where it is. If I don’t use i…

I think you are unusual.

Even if you don't personally use it, a tunnel in your city will affect the lives of the people you know. It will affect the traffic patterns of you and your friends and family and coworkers. The tunnel as an idea will enter the discourse of your circles. Farm subsidies are far more abstract. The real effects of those are barely felt by urbanites, let alone the people in your specific city.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#146

Post by imposterr »

rayiner wrote: post #115
neplus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this quite a bit and tried to word my initial post as a personal statement (not an objective fact of the inferiority of making $50k in Kansas as opposed to Quebec). I entirely agree with your point that American families in Kansas, et al. seem reasonably content and the kind of fears that would lead me to look to Canada over the U.S. if I made $50-100k are perhaps entirely irrational. My response…

This paradox of choice largely doesn't exist in the US either. The majority of people in both countries didn't graduate college. For almost everyone, the elite universities aren't even on the radar (much less the elite employers like FANG into which those universities feed). This upper middle class striverism is over-reported in the media, but is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans. My wife went to high scho…

*if you're straight and white.

For many, living in Iowa isn't really a choice. Same for many places that are not major cities.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#147

Post by ben_w »

acchow wrote: post #145
ben_w wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assembling funds to build a bridge/tunnel/rail in your metro feels more tangible than livestock subsidies in another state? It only feels more tangible if I personally will use it. In the case of things such as “should Berlin build a new tunnel?” (something I suspect I will never use), the trouble is the more effort I put into understanding such a possibility, the less it matters to me where it is. If I don’t use i…

I think you are unusual. Even if you don't personally use it, a tunnel in your city will affect the lives of the people you know. It will affect the traffic patterns of you and your friends and family and coworkers. The tunnel as an idea will enter the discourse of your circles. Farm subsidies are far more abstract. The real effects of those are barely felt by urbanites, let alone the people in your specific city.

> The tunnel as an idea will enter the discourse of your circles. Farm subsidies are far more abstract.

My friends are mostly the other way around. Local road infrastructure has never been discussed, while Brexit, Bolsonaro, and the Hong Kong riots all are. It is fair to say that we don’t discuss farm subsidies (but then, they are also a very small fraction of our total taxation).

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#148

Post by fujiters »

vkou wrote: post #133
fujiters wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If things get seriously unaffordable as a renter, it's always possible to move somewhere more affordable. Housing, on average, rises at the rate of inflation (it's closely linked to the cost of new construction), per Robert Shiller's research. Even if the housing market explodes in one area, there's almost certainly another area where it hasn't (normally one without restrictions on new construction-San Fransisco bein…

Affordable places don't have jobs. This is not a trend that's reversing anytime soon. > Housing, on average, rises at the rate of inflation I don't care about the price of the average house in the country. I care about the price of a house within a commuting distance of where I can find gainful employment. Right now, the prices of homes in those areas are skyrocketing, while the prices of homes in areas that don't ha…

Perhaps grandkids should ask to move in with grandma? She might like the company. :)

In seriousness, not all metro areas have seen the same huge rise in rents and property values. I can personally vouch that the Baltimore-DC region offers relatively high paying jobs and housing that is adorable given those incomes. I've heard San Antonio, TX is also good on the jobs to housing costs front.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#149

Post by vkou »

fujiters wrote: post #148
vkou wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable places don't have jobs. This is not a trend that's reversing anytime soon. > Housing, on average, rises at the rate of inflation I don't care about the price of the average house in the country. I care about the price of a house within a commuting distance of where I can find gainful employment. Right now, the prices of homes in those areas are skyrocketing, while the prices of homes in areas that don't ha…

Perhaps grandkids should ask to move in with grandma? She might like the company. :) In seriousness, not all metro areas have seen the same huge rise in rents and property values. I can personally vouch that the Baltimore-DC region offers relatively high paying jobs and housing that is adorable given those incomes. I've heard San Antonio, TX is also good on the jobs to housing costs front.

Neither Baltimore or San Antonio are in Canada.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#150

Post by rayiner »

imposterr wrote: post #146
rayiner wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This paradox of choice largely doesn't exist in the US either. The majority of people in both countries didn't graduate college. For almost everyone, the elite universities aren't even on the radar (much less the elite employers like FANG into which those universities feed). This upper middle class striverism is over-reported in the media, but is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans. My wife went to high scho…

*if you're straight and white. For many, living in Iowa isn't really a choice. Same for many places that are not major cities.

I won’t claim to know what it’s like to be gay in Iowa, but as a non-white person myself I’d love to live in Iowa. Des Moines has roughly the same percentage of Hispanics and non-whites as Portland or Seattle. The income gap between Hispanic and non-Hispanic households is also narrower in Iowa than the national average.
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