Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 160 posts

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#111

Post by vinay427 »

DubiousPusher wrote: post #62
bazooka_penguin wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More people to manage, more local governments with more layers of hierarchies and more bureaucracy overall and I've never heard of bureaucracies scaling well

If this were the case, Switzerland should be tremendously bad off. They have a ton of bureaucracy and are even more federalist than the U.S.

First of all, their point doesn't depend on Switzerland being in bad shape or not. They're not saying a country's situation solely depends on this, but that it's a factor. There are lots of other factors at play in Switzerland and most any other country.

Second, there usually is another layer in most of the US (and Canada, for that matter) which doesn't exist in Switzerland: the county. I think that's more likely to cause inefficiencies than federalism alone.

Also, I'm not actually sure Switzerland has more bureaucracy. It mostly seems comparable in my experience having lived in both countries. Are there any metrics on this?

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#112

Post by refurb »

moate wrote: post #79
refurb wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you compare a public Canadian university to a private US college? Why not compare public to public?

Statement still stands, public to public in many areas the US is going to cost much more (up to 3X). It just gets REALLY gross when you bring in the private schools. https://www.insider.com/college-canada-us-differences-2018-1...

Your article actually says it ranges from 1.5x as expensive (so very similar) to 4.5x for the cheapest Canadian schools.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#113

Post by refurb »

sokoloff wrote: post #89
jamie_ca wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortgage interest is not tax-deductible in Canada.

Mortgage interest for commercial entities is tax deductible in Canada, just like any other business loan. It's only personal residential mortgages that are not deductible in Canada. It seems to me that this difference favors landlords over owner-occupants when it comes to buying property [which does not seem to be beneficial public policy]. With interest rates as low as they are, this is maybe only a medium-sized pro…

That's very different than what the OP was talking about, no?

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#114

Post by acchow »

ben_w wrote: post #101
hash872 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the standard explanation is that a huge country like the US lacks the social cohesion necessary to pay higher tax rates in exchange for social programs that benefit everyone. Like, I believe Sweden's population is about 10 million- much easier to have the social 'glue' for 'let's all agree to pay very high tax rates, and we'll all get collective social programs with it!' Versus the US at over 300 million peop…

> Like, I believe Sweden's population is about 10 million- much easier to have the social 'glue' This specifically is what I am not understanding. Why is 10 million supposed to be easier? 10 million is about double the size of the metropolitan area I’m currently in, and roughly a hundred times the size of the last city I worked in. In both cases the population is much too large to be a single community.

> 10 million is about double the size of the metropolitan area

But you can agree that you understand and feel connected to the issues of people in your metropolitan area more than those of people in another state? Or in a rural town?

Assembling funds to build a bridge/tunnel/rail in your metro feels more tangible than livestock subsidies in another state?

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#115

Post by rayiner »

neplus wrote: post #100
rayiner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've often thought to myself that I couldn't imagine what it would be like to make $50k in the United States (even living in a low CoL area). From health insurance, to private school costs (given the quality of many public schools), to college costs. It would seem an intense burden. Certainly if I had offers that paid between $50-100k in both the U.S. and Canada I would move back to Canada. I would feel I have no o…

I have thought about this quite a bit and tried to word my initial post as a personal statement (not an objective fact of the inferiority of making $50k in Kansas as opposed to Quebec). I entirely agree with your point that American families in Kansas, et al. seem reasonably content and the kind of fears that would lead me to look to Canada over the U.S. if I made $50-100k are perhaps entirely irrational. My response…

This paradox of choice largely doesn't exist in the US either. The majority of people in both countries didn't graduate college. For almost everyone, the elite universities aren't even on the radar (much less the elite employers like FANG into which those universities feed). This upper middle class striverism is over-reported in the media, but is irrelevant to the vast majority of Americans.

My wife went to high school in rural Iowa. Everyone went to the local high school, and then the smart kids went to U of Iowa, the next tranche went to Iowa State, etc. Her parents were "rich" (her step-dad is a surgeon) but there wasn't much in the way to distinguish them from everyone else. Other “rich” families owned farms, a couple of stores in town, etc. She did FFA (Future Farmers of America) and worked her way through college babysitting. (Tuition at U of I is $8,500 today, about the same as University of Toronto or McGill.)

I should add, in Iowa under 10% of people are below the poverty line, about the same as Canada, infant mortality rate is about the same as Canada, the homelessness rate is 1/10 what it is in Canada, 94% of the population is covered by health insurance, etc. I just got back from Des Moines. Talk about a prosperous, broadly middle class society. The child poverty rate in Des Moines is 14% versus 25% for Toronto. There are no FANG jobs, but millennials with completely normal colleges-graduate jobs own houses. If you want to know why many Americans don’t view their country as a loaf-apocalyptic wasteland, it’s because they don’t live in New York or San Francisco.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#116

Post by rayiner »

appleiigs wrote: post #108
neplus wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have thought about this quite a bit and tried to word my initial post as a personal statement (not an objective fact of the inferiority of making $50k in Kansas as opposed to Quebec). I entirely agree with your point that American families in Kansas, et al. seem reasonably content and the kind of fears that would lead me to look to Canada over the U.S. if I made $50-100k are perhaps entirely irrational. My response…

I find the US colleges to be "clubs" with lots of alumni support. I haven't watch NFL in a while, but for some reason pros who have been in NFL for 10 years still say which college they went to. I think this motivates people to pay extremely high fees to get into the club. Whereas in Canada, like you said, "if she or he applies to them all, will likely get into one". And in 10 years nobody cares where you went school…

On what dimension is Canada "socialist?"

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#117

Post by sokoloff »

refurb wrote: post #113
sokoloff wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mortgage interest for commercial entities is tax deductible in Canada, just like any other business loan. It's only personal residential mortgages that are not deductible in Canada. It seems to me that this difference favors landlords over owner-occupants when it comes to buying property [which does not seem to be beneficial public policy]. With interest rates as low as they are, this is maybe only a medium-sized pro…

That's very different than what the OP was talking about, no?

Which OP? Many upthread are talking about mortgages a subset of which would be deductible in Canada.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#118

Post by vkou »

refurb wrote: post #60
vkou wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been going into debt in order to buy housing, not on other forms of consumer spending or 'living beyond their means'. Who sells them housing? Other Canadians. Why do they go into so much debt? Because the nature of housing is that rising prices will squeeze out every last cent of saved money from the pockets of people trying to buy their first house. It boggles my mind that the average house in Vancouver or T…

The growth of HELOCS has been >7% for the past few years and the Bank of Canada (BOC) is starting to get worried. Canadians are not only taking on debt to buy housing, they are also leveraging housing equity for other expenses as well.[1] BoC staff add that, “Home equity extraction may also be concealing emerging financial distress if borrowers are taking equity out of their homes to manage other debt obligations or…

Those are different Canadians, though.

Young people are screwed by having to go into debt to buy overpriced homes from retirees who are selling (or people selling their starter home, to trade up.)

Retirees who aren't selling are using the equity in their overpriced homes to live lavishly. Their debt isn't a social problem, because they never intend to pay it down while they remain in their home. Instead, they will die or downsize, their home will be sold, and the HELOC will be paid off.

The former group is getting screwed, and is going heavily into debt because of land speculation. The latter group is living it up, and reaping the windfall. Unlike young people, they always have the option to sell, and move to a low-cost of living area that has no jobs.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#119

Post by filoleg »

Ididntdothis wrote: post #11
product50 wrote: post #3

And then you realize that the population of Canada is 10% of US. Canada should be compared to the Nordic countries vs. US in terms of quality of life etc.

Why? Does a larger population size automatically reduce quality of life?

As someone else in the thread has already pointed out, which one do you think will be less stressful and noticeably easier to manage - deciding what to do for dinner for a group of 3 people vs. a group of 30 people? It is much easier to converge on a decision that will leave everyone satisfied when you have 3 people. While with 30 people, it is almost guaranteed that there will be a few people who would be left unsatisfied, a few satisfied, while the remainder will just end up being "ok" with the compromise.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#120

Post by dmix »

lostgame wrote: post #13
dmix wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California and Vancouver has more homelessness because you can survive in the streets with the weather there far easier than Toronto. It also has a network effect, their friends are out there so they want to go. More homeless people the more community they have and less hassle from the police. Same with drug users, the more junkies around the more drug dealers there will be to serve them. Most of those westcoast home…

Vancouver is bad. For sure. The biggest problem is certainly drug use. I've never been there, but I've heard horror stories, and exchange horror stories from California. My other points, especially health care, still stand - and Chicago is comparable, weather-wise, to Toronto, and still contained far more visible homelessness, and things like needles on the sidewalk, that I just rarely, rarely see here. Weather aside…

Isn't SF the most liberal city in the US but has one of the worst homeless problems in the US?

I see needles all the time living downtown in Toronto. Especially when I lived near Parliament and Queen there were tons everywhere. Even now near Cityplace people constantly complain about needles on the FB group.

The difference with better . weather is that you see the homelessness a lot more in urban areas. But you're right the weather is not a good indicator it seems, although far more west coast cities seem to be having a problem with it: https://blogs-images.forbes.com/niallmccarthy/files/2018/12/... Numbers alone is probably a poor metric for it being a 'problem', since Manhattan was famously 'cleaned up'.

> Half of all people experiencing homelessness are in one of five states - California (129,972 people), New York (91,897), Florida (31,030), Texas (25,310) and Washington (22,304).

Post reply on HN