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Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

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Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#61

Post by sbierwagen »

TheArcane wrote: post #20
umvi wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is that both this article and the example you cited are used as reasons to limit constitutional freedoms: Limit second amendment more to prevent mass shootings. Limit first amendment more to prevent suicides. Really though, we should be focusing on the root cause: lonely/sad/broken people. Focus on helping/loving them and I bet suicide/mass shooting rates drop significantly.

> Limit second amendment more to prevent more shootings. I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Nice_truck_attack

87 deaths from a truck ramming attack. The existing licensing system was obviously insufficient to prevent this attack. What do you suggest be done to prevent attacks like this in the future?

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#62

Post by elicash »

riffic wrote: post #42

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...

Did you even bother to read the article? They state this themselves.

> The lack of change in homicide rates during the period of interest lends some strength to the idea that changes in suicide rates were influenced by the show and not some other environmental or social factor that occurred during this period. [...]

> While compelling, this research had several limitations. For example, the study used a quasi-experimental design, meaning that the researchers cannot make a causal link between the release of “13 Reasons Why” and the observed changes in suicide rates. The researchers cannot, therefore, rule out the possibility that unmeasured events or factors influenced suicide rates during this period.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#63

Post by froindt »

kaffeemitsahne wrote: post #16

Potentially OT. Why do people write >"While suicide rates for females increased after the show’s release, the increase was not statistically significant." instead of >"Suicide rates for females did not increase significantly after the show's release." ? I have seen this quite often and it always seems a bit misleading to me. Edit: I should have written the 2nd version as "No statistically significant increase in [...…

I think it's to combat the colloquial definition of "significant" with the specific statistical definition.

All polls and samplings have an amount of error (e.g. Biden leading in the polls at 30%, 3% margin of error). If Biden polls at 32% next week, there was an increase. Colloquially some would say that's a significant increase (after all, his pie grew by 6% compared to the prior week!), but it's very likely to do with chance. Unless you survey the entire population, you don't know the true proportion in which something occurs.

A change from 30% to 35% is quite unlikely to be random chance.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#64

Post by jammygit »

pseudolus wrote: post #5

Obviously horrific but a major failing of the study is that it doesn't state what percentage of the teens who committed suicide actually watched or were even aware of Netflix's "13 Reasons Why". The conclusions are drawn from very indirect evidence.

A randomized double bind study probably has ethical issues. I guess this is the best we can do, unless Netflix volunteers viewing data for everyone

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#65

Post by kart23 »

Yeah no cap they kinda glorified suicide. I don't mean like the gritty details, but like the concept. The show romanticizes suicide as a way to get back at the people who harmed you, solve your problems, and make a huge impact on all the people around you, for better or worse.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#66

Post by scarface74 »

aaomidi wrote: post #35
pm90 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes sense. But how do we address it? It’s not like we can stop the media from reporting on such things. Perhaps the show could have been rated for adults only? It seems like teens today do face challenges that weren’t faced by my generation or the ones before that. Social media, internet enabled always on devices seem to have changed the experience of being a teenager. Perhaps there are deeper issues at stake that…

Back when hollywood was facing censorship they realized they need to self censor or stats like this will be used against them. This is an example of where Netflix acted without thinking what impacts a show like this will have. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and this was on Netflix to resolve. The first step in this case would be to take it down from Netflix. Or they're going to face people calling for it to be taken dow…

You mean the same "state" that blames "violent video games" for mass violence ignoring the centuries of lynching in the US?

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#67

Post by prolepunk »

umvi wrote: post #10
aphextim wrote: post #2

Same reason that when they show the shooter's face all over the media and they give them tons and tons of attention, it typically spawns more copycats who are just lonely/sad/broken teens looking for the same attention. In the show, this teen's suicide was portrayed to have had an impact on many students/families/teachers etc for a very long time after the incident. It almost glorified the suicide and the methods of…

The scary thing is that both this article and the example you cited are used as reasons to limit constitutional freedoms: Limit second amendment more to prevent mass shootings. Limit first amendment more to prevent suicides. Really though, we should be focusing on the root cause: lonely/sad/broken people. Focus on helping/loving them and I bet suicide/mass shooting rates drop significantly.

This is such an asinine argument because it implies the following:

* Let's not examine root causes of anything because freedom

* Freedom by itself is good no matter of consequences

* This is a very US-centric view as no other country has first or second amendment

* How preventing mass shootings is a scary thing, and in which way limiting second amendment is scary?

* Same argument applies to the question you raise about first amendment. What is the use of free speech if all it does is exploit people who are vulnerable to committing suicide?

* Your comment about lonely/sad/broken people is not constructive. There are no actionable items. Instead of academic research you are proposing hearsay and a bet.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#68

Post by lwf »

Interesting to ponder, but hard to draw any conclusions. There are too many confounding factors, including other prominent suicides covered in the media.

LA Times article criticising the study[1]:

> While no variations in the suicide rate were found for people ages 18-64, the rate among people ages 10 to 17 increased by 28.9% in April 2017, the month after the series debuted, the study said. It was also up significantly in June and December of that year, and was higher than expected in March 2017, when the show was heavily promoted. The April 2017 rate was the highest in the five-year period that was studied.

> Outside events include things such as the much-covered suicides of Soundgarden’s Chris Cornell in May 2017 and Chester Bennington of Linkin Park in July of that year, and the death of musician Tom Petty by accidental overdose that October, Moutier says. Also, former NFL star Aaron Hernandez died by suicide in April 2017. […]

> Here’s how a 28.9% increase can also be described as a “weak association,” according to Moutier: The overall suicide rate of boys 10-17 is actually very low, she says, around 0.6 per 100,000 people. Therefore, any change could be seen as significant change.

Guest column from the executive producer of the show[2]:

> However, the research failed to substantiate the author's own hypothesis: that when the show launched on March 31, 2017, young females would be most affected, because it's a girl whose suicide is depicted onscreen. In fact, there was no increase in suicide rates for adolescent girls that spring — and for boys the increase started before the show even launched. As you can see from the chart below, which is based on the same government data, suicide counts for adolescent girls over the last decade have been much more stable than for boys, which have risen consistently. The highest recorded month for girls was November 2016, well before anyone had ever watched 13 Reasons Why.

[1]: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-st-13-reasons...

[2]: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/13-reasons-why-c...

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#69

Post by ggreer »

The full text is on Sci-hub: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.jaac.2019.04.020

I'm extremely skeptical. I don't know how many ways they carved up the data before they found a segment of the population with increased suicide rates at the right time. Also, the show is about a girl who kills herself, but the female rate of suicide didn't increase enough to be considered statistically significant. Lastly, the spike in suicides starts in March, which is a month before the show was released. Their claim only makes sense if you think that watching the trailer is enough to trigger suicides.

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