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Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

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Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#101

Post by ben_w »

hash872 wrote: post #64
ben_w wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should population size be important? I know tiny sample sizes can produce curious results by luck, but I don’t buy that applying to multi-million populations. It seems to me that the difference is worth understanding.

I think the standard explanation is that a huge country like the US lacks the social cohesion necessary to pay higher tax rates in exchange for social programs that benefit everyone. Like, I believe Sweden's population is about 10 million- much easier to have the social 'glue' for 'let's all agree to pay very high tax rates, and we'll all get collective social programs with it!' Versus the US at over 300 million peop…

> Like, I believe Sweden's population is about 10 million- much easier to have the social 'glue'

This specifically is what I am not understanding. Why is 10 million supposed to be easier?

10 million is about double the size of the metropolitan area I’m currently in, and roughly a hundred times the size of the last city I worked in. In both cases the population is much too large to be a single community.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#102

Post by mthoms »

dx87 wrote: post #38
vgoh1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this argument. What does the population of the country have to do with anything? Shouldn't a country with a larger population have more power to make competitive advantages, and larger economies of scale, and therefore have an easier time?

If everyone agrees with each other, then yeah, a large population is better. But when you've got a ton of people it's harder to find a solution that everyone likes. It's like the difference between two people trying to decide where to get lunch, and 30 people trying to decide. It also doesn't help that the West and East coast are culturally different, even among people of the same political party.

Isn't it more like 30 people vs 300 people? The proportions of differing opinions are are still the same in that case.

Your East vs West coast comment also confused me. I'd argue Canada has the same (or more) regional differences in politics.

There's the East Region (Ontario + Maritimes), Quebec (featuring a different language, heritage, culture and legal system), The Central region, and the West Coast.

Oh, and of course First Nations throughout (which of course the US has as well).

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#103

Post by appleiigs »

lgeorget wrote: post #51
Mikeb85 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it's that precarious. Interest rates are near all-time lows and banks here are risk-averse, meaning they don't give out risky loans. Edit - also secured loans are less risky than unsecured loans. Your article includes housing in 'debt'.

Is a loan deemed not risky by the bank necessarily not risky for the loaner? (That's a genuine question, I have no clue)

Yes and No.

Yes - if a billionaire borrower buys a $200,000 house with a mortgage, there is little repayment risk for both borrower and banks. The mortgage payments are unlikely to stress the borrower.

No - that risk can be distributed between bank and borrower. Bank provides 75% of the value of the house, so it takes more risk. However, it can reduce risk in variety of ways, including: 1) taking collateral, 2) taking a guarantee from borrower, 3) diversification, 4) off loading risk to 3rd parties.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#104

Post by ska »

luckylion wrote: post #92
guyzero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada has an immense unguarded border with a country that has several million uneducated people living in extreme poverty.

The US is the target country for most migrants, they don't continue on through to Canada in large numbers. If they did, most would likely get deported, Canada's immigration is highly selective.

It's again not quite that simple. Canada's asylum acceptance rate is higher than the US. However, due to a bilateral policy change in I think 2009 asylum seekers could no longer pass overland through the US and apply in Canada. This reduced the asylum seeker rates from south/central America and Mexico a fair bit to Canada as they were forced to apply in US.

Outside of just asylum seekers, although successful immigration rates are much higher in the US than Canada (about 4x), per capita Canada is much higher (as there is a 10x population difference).

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#105

Post by engineer_22 »

rayiner wrote: post #77
neplus wrote: post #72

I was born and raised in Canada. I, like many of my peers at the "top" Canadian universities, focused solely on recruiting to the "top" American companies that came to campus to recruit[1]. I would describe Canada as generally being tightly range bound. One of the most striking things about coming to the U.S. is the large class of what I would consider to be the working poor. People who are truly just doing enough to…

> I've often thought to myself that I couldn't imagine what it would be like to make $50k in the United States (even living in a low CoL area). From health insurance, to private school costs (given the quality of many public schools), to college costs. It would seem an intense burden. Certainly if I had offers that paid between $50-100k in both the U.S. and Canada I would move back to Canada. I would feel I have no o…

I live in an area of New York State, near a tertiary city, where the median household income is ~$50,000. Parent's comment that to earn this would be an "intense burden" is borderline offensive. I agree with you that urban elite likely have little experience with American (or even Canadian) families living in these conditions. For perspective, such an income puts these families in the 90th percentile, globally.

Parent described how grateful they are to have the opportunities they do. They are obviously very privileged, they should be very grateful.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#106

Post by somethoughts »

product50 wrote: post #3

And then you realize that the population of Canada is 10% of US. Canada should be compared to the Nordic countries vs. US in terms of quality of life etc.

Yes, in some senses it'd make more sense to compare a Nordic country like Finland to greater Silicon Valley in terms of population and GDP at least.

- Silicon Valley pop is 3-4M and Finland is 5M

- Silicon Valley GDP is $275B is higher than Finland $251B

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/apr/30/silicon-v...

Its better to compare the US to the EU.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#107

Post by bryanlarsen »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #41
refurb wrote: post #4

Canadians have been gorging themselves on debt for the past decade. Far higher than other OCED countries. That's left them in a very precarious situation.[1] [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/24/canadas-household-debt-level...

I wouldn't say it's that precarious. Interest rates are near all-time lows and banks here are risk-averse, meaning they don't give out risky loans. Edit - also secured loans are less risky than unsecured loans. Your article includes housing in 'debt'.

When the bubble bursts, the banks probably won't need bailing out, so that won't trigger a recession like happened in 2008.

But a huge number of Canadians being underwater on their mortgage will make for a drastic decrease in consumer spending, which may trigger a recession...

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#108

Post by appleiigs »

neplus wrote: post #100
rayiner wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've often thought to myself that I couldn't imagine what it would be like to make $50k in the United States (even living in a low CoL area). From health insurance, to private school costs (given the quality of many public schools), to college costs. It would seem an intense burden. Certainly if I had offers that paid between $50-100k in both the U.S. and Canada I would move back to Canada. I would feel I have no o…

I have thought about this quite a bit and tried to word my initial post as a personal statement (not an objective fact of the inferiority of making $50k in Kansas as opposed to Quebec). I entirely agree with your point that American families in Kansas, et al. seem reasonably content and the kind of fears that would lead me to look to Canada over the U.S. if I made $50-100k are perhaps entirely irrational. My response…

I find the US colleges to be "clubs" with lots of alumni support. I haven't watch NFL in a while, but for some reason pros who have been in NFL for 10 years still say which college they went to. I think this motivates people to pay extremely high fees to get into the club.

Whereas in Canada, like you said, "if she or he applies to them all, will likely get into one". And in 10 years nobody cares where you went school. Oddly more of a meritocracy than in the US, which you wouldn't expect in a more socialist Canadian system.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#109

Post by mthoms »

mullen wrote: post #71
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your health care is in no way, shape, or form "free" Are you nitpicking over the definition of the word "free" because it's taxpayer-funded? You should know that "free healthcare" is shorthand for "you are unlikely to be bankrupted by, or forced to do without, necessary treatment because your insurance is not up to snuff."

No one is nitpicking, you are just seriously incorrect. Free means to not pay for something. Saying that Health Care is free is to say that the user of Health Care does not have to pay for its cost. Health Care is never free, no matter the system in which it is provided.

Your definition of free is correct, so it's fair to briefly point out that health care is not actually free in Canada. On the other hand, everybody knows that, including the person using the word "free". So over-focusing on the word is a form of nitpicking IMHO.

People often use the word "free" to mean - I can use this service without even thinking about money.

As everyone on HN will tell you... Google and Facebook's services are not free (you're just paying in a different way) but they're commonly described as "free" services.

So.. you're both right.

Re: Most Canadians Are Now Better Off Than Most Americans

#110

Post by refurb »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #86
refurb wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but much of Canada's immigration is points based - i.e. you get well educated, employable people. The vast majority of US immigration is family based where your elderly grandmother from back home can come and live in the US.

Family sponsorships are a thing here... A permanent resident of Canada can sponsor any immediate family member (except siblings over a certain age) and grandparents.

In the US, family reunification is 66% of all immigrants.[1]

In Canada, it's 30%.[2]

[1]http://www.ncsl.org/research/immigration/snapshot-of-u-s-imm... [2]https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/co...

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