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Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

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Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#81
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't tried it, Google translate does a really good job with translating german law texts.

That's likely because Google trains the algorithm on EU parliament texts, which are published in all the official EU languages by human translators, among other sources.

And before that, French to/from English because Canadian governments did the same thing for their laws/treaties since... forever?

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#82
I am an electrical engineer by "education" and "profession". I was never too interested in gardening or plants until my roommate tore up the backyard grass. I spend most of my time (like you) in front of a computer.

Now I can spend almost an entire day tying up tomatoes, planting seeds, creating wells in the dirt so water doesn't run off, doing anything that will help more vegetables grow. There is something extremely healing that comes with tending to nature. I would bet every human has the innate ability to do it.

We are mostly very disconnected from nature. Once you get back to it, you realize how healing it is for your mind and body. Now, I literally NEED these days in the backyard. After one of these days, I am more at peace.

I know not everyone has the space. You can also grow a lot of things in containers. People throw away all sorts of pots every year that they get from nurseries. I have picked up hundreds off the side of the road (in the US).

Also, as an engineer, you realize that your computer is not very amazing compared to nature. You're in awe at the ability of plants to respond to different situations and simply witnessing their growth provides the contrast that you need to put your computer and the technologies around you into perspective.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#83
post #82

I am an electrical engineer by "education" and "profession". I was never too interested in gardening or plants until my roommate tore up the backyard grass. I spend most of my time (like you) in front of a computer. Now I can spend almost an entire day tying up tomatoes, planting seeds, creating wells in the dirt so water doesn't run off, doing anything that will help more vegetables grow. There is something extremel…

We've mostly lost ourselves in productivity.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#84
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Spießertum" I'm getting the translation of philistine, which seems a bit harsh? Anything that better captures the flavour, for an Anglophone?

When I posted I thought about a translation but drew a blank. It’s somewhere between conservative, law abiding, rules oriented but also community oriented. But everybody has their own connotations so there is no real definition. Generally it’s used a derogatory term. Nobody calls themself a Spießbürger.

In the US, those people are called tools.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#85
post #69

Coming from a small third world country myself, I didn’t know what the market was until I was 19 and came to the states. Everything we needed to survive we grew it or raised it. It was a way of life, at 5 or 6 years old I was able to watch over our farm animals and knew exactly what was expected of me. Now a 6 years old can’t even put their own shoes on by themselves let alone know how to do anything related to self…

Are you saying it's a bad thing that our 6 year olds don't have to herd sheep to be able to survive?

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#86
post #82

I am an electrical engineer by "education" and "profession". I was never too interested in gardening or plants until my roommate tore up the backyard grass. I spend most of my time (like you) in front of a computer. Now I can spend almost an entire day tying up tomatoes, planting seeds, creating wells in the dirt so water doesn't run off, doing anything that will help more vegetables grow. There is something extremel…

We've mostly lost ourselves in productivity.

We’ve lost ourselves to pretending that yelling at strangers on the internet is productive.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#87
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I posted I thought about a translation but drew a blank. It’s somewhere between conservative, law abiding, rules oriented but also community oriented. But everybody has their own connotations so there is no real definition. Generally it’s used a derogatory term. Nobody calls themself a Spießbürger.

In the US, those people are called tools.

A "tool" is something else. there is no equivalent in the US.

It's really really hard to translate stereotypes from one country to another. There are a lot of US stereotypes that you can't translate to Germany either.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#88
post #61
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And maybe we ought to encourage more people to stop playing video games and get out and grow more stuff. You can already do this in video games though (Harvest Moon, Stardew Valley, Farming Simulator, etc.)

As a farmer in a previous life, I 10000% do not understand Farming Simulator as a game for entertainment. Farming as a career is either mind-numbingly boring, or overwhelmingly depressing. There is nothing else. How does that possibly translate to a video game?

Video games are just work fine tuned to produce a level of reward and learning that is psychologically satisfying. Jumping and murdering turtles isn't fun, but it's a fun video game because it's designed to be fun.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#89
post #69

Coming from a small third world country myself, I didn’t know what the market was until I was 19 and came to the states. Everything we needed to survive we grew it or raised it. It was a way of life, at 5 or 6 years old I was able to watch over our farm animals and knew exactly what was expected of me. Now a 6 years old can’t even put their own shoes on by themselves let alone know how to do anything related to self…

> Yes, we live in a sad world that we don’t know anymore what will happen if one day markets are no longer an option.

This doesn't seem to follow from the sentences that proceeded it. The remedy to inattentive parenting is doomsday prepping?

Gardening and other "fundamental" activities can be great ways for parents to spend meaningful time with their children, but the goal isn't to prepare our children for the impending collapse of civilization, right?

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#90
post #51
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Spießertum" I'm getting the translation of philistine, which seems a bit harsh? Anything that better captures the flavour, for an Anglophone?

No, "philistine" is actually quite right. That's how Jesus Christ called them. You could also call them submissive, hypocrite squareheaded cowards. The "Spieß" seems to translate to "skewer", "spit", "pike". So, they sting, but are not very sharp. They always side with the authority du jour, because that keeps them safe.

The translation is correct, but your interpretation is wrong. "Spießbürger" is a medieval term, referring to citizens enlisted in a city's defense forces as spearmen, and was originally used derogatorily by the upper classes, who were mounted on horses instead. Later, it was mostly used by students to ridicule the "uneducated" masses. See famous German poet Heinrich Heine (translated from the Wikipedia article):

"In general, the residents of Göttingen are divided into students, professors, philistines, and beasts... The number of philistines of Göttingen is rather large, like sand, or more precisely, like shit by the seashore; truly, when I saw them in the morning, with their dirty faces and white invoices, before the gates of the academic court, I could barely believe how God could create so much scum."

The modern use of the word, referring to somebody who is petty, obedient to any authority, bland and unpleasant, was probably shaped by Ödön von Horvath's novel "Der ewige Spießer" (The Eternal Philistine). The pejorative was popular among German students in the wake of the anti-fascist protests of 1968, referring to those set in their (Nazi) ways due to lack of critical thinking.

Note: Most of this comment is just me summarizing the German Wikipedia article on the word. I am not a philologist.

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