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U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

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Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#311

Post by dijksterhuis »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #309
dijksterhuis wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in recovery for drug and alcohol abuse and spent a lot of time with other recovering drug addicts. None of us look down on stoners as “having it easy”. Addiction and the destruction it can bring to a person’s life is universal. The choice of drug is irrelevant. The (elevator pitch) point behind addiction is that I, as an addict, have avoided reality by using, rather than actually facing reality as it is. Paying m…

Addiction is not universal at all. Not even close. It’s charitable of you not to look down on them, but they aren’t addicted to weed, and weed isn’t destroying their life. Their own choices are. You cannot even compare this with opiates.

Just to be clear - when I say it is universal, I’m referring to those who suffer from addictions, and what they experience. Not everyone is an addict or will have problems with substance abuse who has/does use substances.

I’m not going to argue that the withdrawal and initial stages of getting clean are different. They are totally different.

But the root causes that are the bedrock of this disease are all very similar across the board. Alcohol, sex addiction, opiates, cocaine, marijuana...

All of them are borne out of similar issues.

All of them cause similar types of destruction in the life of an addict, or persons in any type of vicinity to an addict.

In that sense, the effects are universal. No matter the choice of substance/activity.

I freely admit that my own choices (and some that were not mine) took me down the path I went.

But that’s looking at this from a very shallow perspective.

Because I wasn’t even aware that there’s a totally other side of the coin. A chance to actually live life. That never ever entered into my perception.

All I tried to do, like many addicts, was exist. In a state where I’m not dead, but I’m also not living. Just numbing the pain of my existence because I felt I couldn’t face the problems in my life.

And I couldn’t. Not alone.

Addiction is a disease of the mind.

It also gets a hell of a lot worse the longer it is allowed to fester away.

A great example of this is alcoholism....

If alcohol, by itself, was addictive, society would have eaten itself up a long time ago.

But that hasn’t happened. Only certain people seem to become alcoholics.

So it is universal in how it affects those who suffer from it, regardless of the substances involved.

Here’s a dictionary definition of addiction:

> the fact or condition of being addict to a particular substance or activity

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#312

Post by brilliantmind »

DenisM wrote: post #214
newsreview1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Have you considered that there might be a huge population of people out there who smoked weed and did not develop any problems, thus never coming into your orbit? And your observation could be easily explained in reverse: "I have witnessed secondhand that people who were susceptible to anxiety, agitation, paranoia, and psychosis due to {trauma|genetics|isolation|etc} and other misfortunes in life were also likely to…

At this point, if you ignore all the evidence that points at long term effects on cognition from marihuana consumption, it's more your conscious decision rather than lack of data.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#313

Post by dijksterhuis »

lawnchair_larry wrote: post #310
silvat wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're characterization of these people simply as deadbeats trying to avoid responsibility is both extremely insensitive and simple minded. How deep a person can gets caught up in addiction is usually a reflection of their emotional health. They're not trying to escape responsibility, they're trying to escape being alive.

We’re saying the same thing. I am not concerned with being sensitive, sorry. Facts don’t care about feelings. I think this mentality that we can’t speak the truth out of fear that we’ll hurt their feelings, and encouraging a victim mentality only makes things worse. Recognizing that you are a deadbeat, and deciding that you don’t want to be is the only way to even begin recovery. I’ve seen this up close. Anyone who h…

I agree with what you’re saying, factually. I completely disagree with the way you’re saying it unfortunately.

The important point to remember is that addicts already punish themselves waaaaaaaaay more than anyone in the real world ever could.

Like, in my own experience, it’s like having a spade in my head that constantly smashes me in my face me every few minutes. It’s absolutely punishing.

I genuinely thought I was one of the worst human beings alive.

Referring to them as deadbeats is not the right way to go because it:

a) reinforces those punishing beliefs even more

b) reinforces the isolation and separation, which is a key element in the problem

c) provides an excuse to keep going through stereotypes and stigma (“once an addict, always an addict” etc.)

d) addicts, by our very nature, fight. Pushing an addict is like poking an angry snake. It doesn’t help anyone. Playing the snake calming music does though (ie being nice).

Edit:

One of the reasons I’m still clean is because of the guilt and shame I felt about how badly I treated people. People who were genuinely very nice to me. It takes time to see it, but it’s very important to be kind and to not judge. It’s tough, especially when an addict hurts someone so much and so often.

Of course what you’ve been through sounds like hell. And Addiction doesn’t just affect the individual. It affects everyone around them, unfortunately.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#314

Post by lawnchair_larry »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #313
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re saying the same thing. I am not concerned with being sensitive, sorry. Facts don’t care about feelings. I think this mentality that we can’t speak the truth out of fear that we’ll hurt their feelings, and encouraging a victim mentality only makes things worse. Recognizing that you are a deadbeat, and deciding that you don’t want to be is the only way to even begin recovery. I’ve seen this up close. Anyone who h…

I agree with what you’re saying, factually. I completely disagree with the way you’re saying it unfortunately. The important point to remember is that addicts already punish themselves waaaaaaaaay more than anyone in the real world ever could. Like, in my own experience, it’s like having a spade in my head that constantly smashes me in my face me every few minutes. It’s absolutely punishing. I genuinely thought I was…

To be clear, are you saying nobody is a deadbeat? And anyone avoiding responsibility is a victim of something? Some might be, but 100% are? I find this view of the world very naive.

Weed isn’t the reason that someone isn’t taking care of their wife and kids. There could be many reasons, perhaps some legitimate and some not so legitimate. But the reason is never that the weed got a hold of them like people unfamiliar with it seem to think. It just doesn’t have that effect. Some drugs do, though.

Edit:

BTW, although my connection to the situation was quite stressful, I would not call what I went through hell compared to what his (now ex) wife and kids went through. But yes, the blast radius is large there. And the people who got the worst of it were the compassionate ones. They’re so easily manipulated, and the addicts know that.

Now that I think about it, the individual who helped him and his family the most (and who is currently not speaking to him) is actually one of the biggest weed users I alluded to earlier. That guy gets more done in a day before most people even get out of bed.

So yeah, I just can’t take people seriously when they talk about victims of weed addiction, especially when their opinions are formed based on that pothead from high school that didn’t go anywhere. It’s comical sounding if you have any real experience or understanding of these issues.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#315

Post by tryitnow »

donw wrote: post #264
sharadov wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the libertarian approach, which says legalize everything, tax everything. Am with you on it, although am not sure, how that would work with hard drugs ( cocaine,mushrooms,LSD, ecstasy,heroin). Again within hard drugs - cocaine is vastly different from doing LSD. A single dose of LSD in a bad setting could mess your psyche up for life. What you are doing is choosing the better of two evils.I would rather buy a…

I'd say more pragmatic than purely libertarian. :) You still need a regulatory framework, and I would strongly argue for compulsory education on drug use, not to mention treatment programs, all of which should be funded through use taxes. Otherwise, though, I agree very much with the libertarians that that empowering individuals to make their own life-choices is far more beneficial to society than criminalization and…

Thanks for making that distinction. I think the purely libertarian approach has the risk to do more harm than good.

Without education, social support, and access to mental health care, a drug free-for-all could very well lead to such disastrous results that there is a backlash that returns us right back to criminalization and prohibition.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#316

Post by chillwaves »

technothrasher wrote: post #288
appleshore wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society itself seems like a driver of psychosis. In school, they rarely teach critical thinking nor warnings of cognitive biases. People then grow up in a rather unfair world and system. Next they get easily persuaded by a clever YouTube video or concept. Now their anger has a revelation and a fascination.

Neither lack of critical thinking skills nor disenchantment with the world leading to fantasy prone thinking have anything to do with psychosis.

What do you base this statement on? There are lots of examples of belief systems leading people into what is viewed as psychosis.

Cult belhavior. Religious extremism. There are many examples.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#317

Post by chillwaves »

scruple wrote: post #238
newsreview1 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate this honest statement. I work daily with individuals with mental disabilities including psychosis, memory dysfunction, and perceptional disturbances, and can certainly agree from what I have subjectively seen. (Though also longitudinally as I have viewed medical records extensively over years and years of research). I have witnessed secondhand that higher doses and earlier use of THC are more likely to p…

Completely off-topic here, my apologies. If I wanted to talk with someone about memory dysfunction, who would that be? It's something that I've begun to notice in myself and I'd love to know more about what you do, with the hopes of finding a professional to speak with about my concerns.

I would preach acceptance with your memory loss and to let go of the past. It is a fact of life that our bodies (and minds) will degenerate with time.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#318

Post by chillwaves »

graphememes wrote: post #121
nenadg wrote: post #45

I smoked weed heavily from my ~16 to ~18. And I stopped because it was so overwhelming experience that I could not stand any more. I couldn't function normally and had really tough trips, thinking about so many end results in the same time. Minutes took hours and basically it was an agony, while everybody had pretty joyful time laughing. Now, I'm 38. I'm functional (so far), I have family with kids. I haven't develop…

Being in the bay area, I have witnessed what you expressed happen to many engineers since the legalization. They burn out quickly as well. They swear it's not weed since everyone else tells them that's all tinfoil hat stuff. It's very unfortunate.

Do these folks drink? I know a lot of stressed out workers who drink heavily.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#319

Post by chillwaves »

dkersten wrote: post #301
lawnchair_larry wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cannabis addiction, if that even exists, isn’t a bitch at all. Nicotine addiction is kind of a bitch. Opiate addiction is a bitch.

> if that even exists Of course it exists. You can be addicted to anything: caffeine, chocolate, sugar, video games. It just means you have a dependence on it that is tough to break. It could be a physical addiction like nicotine or alcohol, but it could be a mental addiction or even just a routine that's hard to break. Anything that either provides stimulation or that numbs you is, in my opinion, pretty addictive: a…

What seems callous is disregarding the differences between physical addiction of drugs like caffeine, nicotine and alcohol -- which can kill you if you stop taking it suddenly.

Sure, addicts like drugs and weed is a drug. I'm missing the part where the harm (to self and others) is anywhere near that of some of the others mentioned in this post.

Like you said, you can be addicted to anything but it would be absurd to equate chocolate to heroin.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#320

Post by chillwaves »

liability wrote: post #204
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Demanding that people give the federal disclaimer every time they discuss the matter is tedious and pointless (since of course you already know it...) It seems to me that saying "pot is legal in MA" is precisely as incorrect as saying "pot is illegal in MA". They're both half-truths. I believe there's rhetorical and political power, however, in repeating an untruth without anybody challenging it. HN is intended to…

Being "precisely correct" is tedious and pointless. I was like that in the past and it was a hard habit to kick, but I strongly encourage you to do the same.

Your comments are extremely generous.
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