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Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

bbc.com

31–40 of 111 posts

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#31

It looks like HN will have to loosen at least one part of its anti-suburban stance: people who live in the suburbs get back and front yards as part of the deal.

I'm not sure I understand? Nothing about maintaining a small garden plot requires a single-family home on a large (by urban standards) piece of land. I live in a townhome, small front yard, rear is a brick patio. We have a remote garden plot down the road. It's free to use as long as we maintain it, sure beats paying a mortgage. And if we get bored with it, we can pass it to the next person on the list.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#32

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

I think you under-estimate the pesticide regimen comerical farms use (I doubt your neighborhood gardener could get there hands on some of them). Though you are probably correct, small gardens aren't really an efficient way to grow food.

I'm not a farmer but this description of farming from the end of last century stuck in my mind.

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/25/magazine/playing-god-in-t...

"I asked him to walk me through a season's regimen. It typically begins early in the spring with a soil fumigant; to control nematodes, many potato farmers douse their fields with a chemical toxic enough to kill every trace of microbial life in the soil. Then, at planting, a systemic insecticide (like Thimet) is applied to the soil; this will be absorbed by the young seedlings and, for several weeks, will kill any insect that eats their leaves. After planting, Forsyth puts down an herbicide -- Sencor or Eptam -- to ''clean'' his field of all weeds. When the potato seedlings are six inches tall, an herbicide may be sprayed a second time to control weeds.

Idaho farmers like Forsyth farm in vast circles defined by the rotation of a pivot irrigation system, typically 135 acres to a circle; I'd seen them from 30,000 feet flying in, a grid of verdant green coins pressed into a desert of scrubby brown. Pesticides and fertilizers are simply added to the irrigation system, which on Forsyth's farm draws most of its water from the nearby Snake River. Along with their water, Forsyth's potatoes may receive 10 applications of chemical fertilizer during the growing season. Just before the rows close -- when the leaves of one row of plants meet those of the next -- he begins spraying Bravo, a fungicide, to control late blight, one of the biggest threats to the potato crop. (Late blight, which caused the Irish potato famine, is an airborne fungus that turns stored potatoes into rotting mush.) Blight is such a serious problem that the E.P.A. currently allows farmers to spray powerful fungicides that haven't passed the usual approval process. Forsyth's potatoes will receive eight applications of fungicide.

Twice each summer, Forsyth hires a crop duster to spray for aphids. Aphids are harmless in themselves, but they transmit the leafroll virus, which in Russet Burbank potatoes causes net necrosis, a brown spotting that will cause a processor to reject a whole crop. It happened to Forsyth last year. ''I lost 80,000 bags'' -- they're a hundred pounds each -- ''to net necrosis,'' he said. ''Instead of getting $4.95 a bag, I had to take $2 a bag from the dehydrator, and I was lucky to get that.'' Net necrosis is a purely cosmetic defect; yet because big buyers like McDonald's believe (with good reason) that we don't like to see brown spots in our fries, farmers like Danny Forsyth must spray their fields with some of the most toxic chemicals in use, including an organophosphate called Monitor.

''Monitor is a deadly chemical,'' Forsyth said. ''I won't go into a field for four or five days after it's been sprayed -- even to fix a broken pivot.'' That is, he would sooner lose a whole circle to drought than expose himself or an employee to Monitor, which has been found to cause neurological damage.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#33

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

Many of your points are either wrong or something many gardeners (particularly the younger end of the spectrum IME) are very conscious of. Of course all of this comes with the caveat of being anecdotal and from my own experience as a former allotment gardener and now back-garden veg grower in my 30s.

1: use of pesticides is uncommon amongst most veg gardeners, even mainstream garden magazines and culture now cover the harm of plastic use in pots etc. Note also is relatively simple to drastically cut plastic use in veg gardening by growing from seed and avoiding plastic plug trays.

2: again people are very conscious of peat use, indeed many nations have incoming bans.

3: one of the first things most allotment gardeners do is get a water butt set up to collect rainwater. Most allotments don’t allow hosepipes so if nothing else it saves lugging water back from the nearest tap. Similarly it’s easy to get water storage setup in any garden, it’s one of the first “hardware” projects on most hobbyist gardeners agenda.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#34
post #2

It should be noted that these gardens are comparatively cheap. For many there is no other feasible way to own a few 100m² of green and free sky.

Are these plots of land actually owned by the users? I assumed they were rented, but the article doesn't seem to specify though the terms "allotment" and "waiting list" imply to me that they're not owned by the gardeners.

The land is owned by an association which leases it out to members; everything on top (house, trees and other plants) is owned by the gardener. So there's a transfer of ownership when a lot frees up, but the market is highly regulated so you can't just outbid everyone else to get a garden faster.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#35

These used to be the ultimate symbol of “Spießertum”. Funny how things change and trends come and go.

"Spießertum"

I'm getting the translation of philistine, which seems a bit harsh?

Anything that better captures the flavour, for an Anglophone?

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#36

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

You're making a huge number of assumptions, both about gardening and about farming.

1. Not everyone uses those pots, and there are lots of alternatives. Many serious gardeners start from seed. Also, you provide no actual analysis of how much waste these contribute relative to vegetable farms + shipping + supermarkets, which also involves a lot of plastic.

2. Peat is terrible, and also totally unnecessary. What's needed here is regulation.

3. Expensive, perhaps. Claiming that farms use surface water is simply untrue. Try flying over the American west some time: those little circles are often the result of depleting ground water and pumping it onto the arid ground. Both gardens and farms can be far more water efficient than they currently are (personally I use salvaged mulch and drip irrigation), but farming is currently crazily unsustainable water-wise, both in terms of consumption and contamination.

It is definitely, definitely possible to garden in an environmentally positive way. Almost everything used can be reused or obtained from other sources (single use food plastic is great for seed starting), pests can be managed at a small scale without pesticides, and efficient water practices are easy. It's also easier to incorporate efficient perrenial crops at a small scale.

Also, there are second order effects to be considered in connecting people to their food systems. Nobody notices if the far away farm providing their veggies is operating responsibly, but growing their own or getting involved with urban growers lets them see the process up close and be connected to it.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#37

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

Have a home garden, don't really use much of 1) or 2), and we get enough rain throughout most of the growing season that usage of 3) is pretty light - on the order of "we water the garden for 1-2 minutes once every 2 weeks or so, and it's fine". (I don't have precise figures to attach to these.)

(More on 1) - we do use Jiffy planters for some things, which we then rinse after transplanting and reuse the next season. However, we mostly sow directly outside.)

There are a few things missing from this comparison, though!

First and foremost: impact of shipping. Once you ship zucchinis from Mexico to your local grocer / supermarket, there's a lot more embodied carbon than in a zucchini you pulled from your front step.

Second: mechanization. AFAIK, most home gardening is a pretty manual process. Not so for industrial-scale farming, which involves tractors and tillers and spraying planes and giant irrigators and so on. While there is a bit of "amortization at scale", those all add to the total lifecycle resources necessary to grow something. (Not to mention that all that equipment has to be built somewhere from materials extracted somewhere else, and the ongoing maintenance cost / burden of this equipment is decidedly higher than for our push mower or pruning shears.)

Finally: land use. Most farmland was (either recently or historically) cleared from forests, which are also giant CO2 sinks. The most prominent example today is probably heavy deforestation in the Amazon, mostly for agricultural and meat production. Now, of course our home garden sits on previously cleared land, but we're not clearing any more of it - in fact, we have trees, bushes, ground cover, etc. in parts of our garden space, meaning that we're taking what was underutilized urban land and converting it to a CO2 sink.

I'd love to see a scientific lifecycle analysis of gardening vs. agriculture, along with guidelines for "environmentally responsible gardening" - but I'd be very surprised if the analysis didn't come out heavily in favour of local small-scale gardening.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#38

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

I think you under-estimate the pesticide regimen comerical farms use (I doubt your neighborhood gardener could get there hands on some of them). Though you are probably correct, small gardens aren't really an efficient way to grow food. I'm not a farmer but this description of farming from the end of last century stuck in my mind. https://www.nytimes.com/1998/10/25/magazine/playing-god-in-t... "I asked him to walk me…

The math on pesticides shouldn't be too hard. Take the amount of pesticides sold to residential consumers and device by the total acreage for home gardens, which should be some percentage of all residential land. Commercial farms certainly do use lots of chemicals, but per-acre I suspect that many lawns use more. While they may get numerically fewer treatments, a commercial operator spreads the stuff very thinly. (And one can debate whether the chlorine in municipal water supplies should count.)

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#39

I used to think of gardening and allotments as a rather innocuous activity, something rather green that was good for all involved. But in the last year I've come to realize that it isn't environmentally sound. (1) Plastics and pesticides. They are over-used by gardeners as opposed to commercial farmers. Even without chemicals, the plastics pots, bags and other devices all end up in landfills. Those innocuous black po…

In 2019, just beneath the surface of every last "rather innocuous activity" lies a whole raft of things to feel bad about and someone to let you know about it.

It's gardening. It's fine. If gardening (gardening!) is now something that should be "approached with caution" then we've jumped the shark as a civilization.

Re: Gardens with a 12,000-person waiting list

#40
post #35

These used to be the ultimate symbol of “Spießertum”. Funny how things change and trends come and go.

"Spießertum" I'm getting the translation of philistine, which seems a bit harsh? Anything that better captures the flavour, for an Anglophone?

I got "fuddy-duddy", so presumably it was seen as an old (or old-fashioned) person's hobby.
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