You should write this in Chinese so the Mainlanders could actually read it.
If he writes this in Chinese the mainlanders will not be able to read it anymore (it would get blocked).
Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
11–20 of 57 posts
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#12I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
There has been abusive treatment of some illegal immigrants into some of these countries, particularly recently, but there had also been massive outcries about it. In almost every case the law and public opinion has stopped or prevented the worst mistreatment. The Australian detention centres are winding down, the separation of children from their families ordered by Trump was successfully challenged in court. Massiv…
> In almost every case the law and public opinion has stopped or prevented the worst mistreatment. The Australian detention centres are winding down, the separation of children from their families ordered by Trump was successfully challenged in court. Massive public protests and press coverage worked.
That's just because the people care now. If people in mainland China start caring for that minority we'll see change as well. There might be outside pressure as well like sanctions (or tariffs I guess) of course.
Maybe I shouldn't have picked immigrants. As I said in another comment: How about how black people are treated in the US (many are in jail for "crimes" that are now legal), how Muslims are treated everywhere in the west? I can come up with many examples of minorities being treated terrible in western democratic countries.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
There has been abusive treatment of some illegal immigrants into some of these countries, particularly recently, but there had also been massive outcries about it. In almost every case the law and public opinion has stopped or prevented the worst mistreatment. The Australian detention centres are winding down, the separation of children from their families ordered by Trump was successfully challenged in court. Massiv…
My understanding of US detention centers is that their capacity is only expanding.
That is true, people who illegally enter the US in violation of it's laws get detained, however they have access to legal due process and their rights are guaranteed in law. There certainly have been abuses and violations, but these have frequently been reported in the medial and successfully challenged in courts of law.
Don't get me wrong, the recent treatment of refugees entering the US has been appalling. In my books, no supporter of the current US administration gets to claim they are pro-family or support traditional values, after the deliberate rending of children from their parents, as a terror tactic to scare other migrants away. "Don't come here, look what we will do to your children". Despicable. China can rightly use that as a counterpoint to their actions. The point is, it doesn't get them off the hook though.
These cases in the West are subject to public scrutiny. Journalists and opposition politicians have access to the facilities and to detainees and access to the courts to ensure judicial review. It is absolutely reasonable and fair to expect China to meet the same standards.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#14I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
[deleted]
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#15I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
This kind of empty, backwards argument is known as a “whataboutism” and is commonly seen in propaganda.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#16I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
> are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS? For one, the Uyghur are not immigrants. As bad as you may think immigrants are treated in US/EU/AUS, China wouldn't even let them in in the first place. Also given that China has to actively prevent the Uyghur from leaving, while the West has to prevent immigrants from entering , should tell you who's treated worse.
See my other comments, I shouldn't have picked immigrants as an example. There are many other example minority groups.
> Also given that China has to actively prevent the Uyghur from leaving, while the West has to prevent immigrants from entering, should tell you who's treated worse.
I'm no expert on the matter, but a source on the top of Google says it's just as bad in the US ( https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-free-leave-dete... ): Immigrants in "detention camps" near the US border are not allowed to leave either.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#17Earlier quoted context omitted.
My understanding of US detention centers is that their capacity is only expanding.
That is true, people who illegally enter the US in violation of it's laws get detained, however they have access to legal due process and their rights are guaranteed in law. There certainly have been abuses and violations, but these have frequently been reported in the medial and successfully challenged in courts of law. Don't get me wrong, the recent treatment of refugees entering the US has been appalling. In my bo…
I just did a quick google search on the matter, and according to the top link[1] this is not possible in practise for people in "detention facilities" to leave them.
[1]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-free-leave-dete... this is not
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#18I agree that the things described are very bad. But I do want to point that many western democratic governments do things that might be just as bad (are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?). Though I have to admit I'm not well informed on exactly what type of "democracy" they are after. If you get the majority of people to not care about what happens to a minori…
>(are the Uyghur Muslims treated worse than immigrants in many western places like US / EU / AUS?)
This question would be simpler to answer if China allowed foreign reporters access to the camps, cities, and provinces where (millions of) Uyghur Muslims are held, such as Xinjiang.
Could you imagine if Chinese reporters were denied to access to, for example, the state of Texas? What if plainclothes Texas Rangers stalked tourists visiting El Paso, and aggressively detained and deported anyone caught interviewing local Hispanics? That’s the type of media blackout which I understand is currently imposed on Xinjiang.
VICE News on the ground:
Foreign Policy editor, “All of my Uyghur sources are gone”:
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#19Good luck to protestors. Hard to see the reasons for China to compromise though.
Re: Drink Poison and Smile: How I Arrived at My Position of Pro-Democracy
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is true, people who illegally enter the US in violation of it's laws get detained, however they have access to legal due process and their rights are guaranteed in law. There certainly have been abuses and violations, but these have frequently been reported in the medial and successfully challenged in courts of law. Don't get me wrong, the recent treatment of refugees entering the US has been appalling. In my bo…
I just did a quick google search on the matter, and according to the top link[1] this is not possible in practise for people in "detention facilities" to leave them. [1]: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/immigrants-free-leave-dete... this is not
That's what detention means, right? I'm not sure what point of mine you are referring to.